formosa 41

[robwilk37]

considering the purchase of this boat. not exactly nimble. has anyone considered or actually retrofitted a spade or skeg-hung rudder on this hull form to improve handling? and yes, i know its a big job. and it doesnt open much of an aperture, but could help...especially backing.

interested in comments, thanks

[sailingdog]

If you don't like the handling characteristics, why are you looking at the boat? It makes a lot more sense to buy a boat that has the handling characteristics that you want, rather than trying to retrofit a boat that doesn't have them and making it something it isn't.

[robwilk37]

the price is right, the boat suits my needs, ive got to take that end of the boat apart anyway, and i like working on boats. in 50 years weve learned some things about boat design and materials have radically evolved...so why not seek to improve on a sound design? unless its been done already and didnt improve anything and , well, thats why i posted the question in the first place.

[sailingdog]

relocating the rudder takes a fair bit of work. It requires a lot of planning to do it properly, so that the new rudder location, especially if it is a spade rudder, can take the loads, especially on as heavy and large a boat as a formosa 41.

[MedSailor]

Originally Posted by robwilk37

considering the purchase of this boat. not exactly nimble. has anyone considered or actually retrofitted a spade or skeg-hung rudder on this hull form to improve handling? and yes, i know its a big job. and it doesnt open much of an aperture, but could help...especially backing.

interested in comments, thanks

Disclaimer: I own a Formosa 41.

I like to say nothing is impossible but what you're asking is as close as it gets. The F41 is built by laying up epic amounts of fiberglass 2+inches thick near the keel in a wineglass hull form. Once the hull is built as one contiguous fiberglass shape the lead (or iron punchings or whatever) is poured into the bottom of the hull from the inside and the lead or odd bits of metal scrap is held in place by dumping in 50gals of resin.

Imaine this. Take a very large wine glass, dump a few blueberries in the bottom and fill the bottom 1/4 of the glass with jello. So the keel is part of the hull and trying to cut into that puppy is going to be a nightmare. You will find yourself cutting into a 1+ft wide piece of SOLID resin with lead inside if your lucky, or steel punchings to munch your saw if you're unlucky.

I like epic boat projects, but I wouldn't try this. Even if you suceed in the boat yard you've seriously altered the ballast and boyancy. I have visions of the boat squatting low in the stern because you removed so much boyancy at the stern, or perhaps sitting with it's bowsprit in the water because you took lead out of the stern.

FWIW the formosa is not "nimble" and sucks to steer in close quarters but doesn't sail bad in light air. I was quite suprised. I always am able to sail at 1/2 of the true wind speed in light air using my working main + mizzen and my nylon drifter. I've sailed into anchor, even sailing slightly upwind, with 3kts true using this combo before.

I would suggest another boat if you like "nimble" boats. If you still are considering a formosa I can let you know how to pick a good one. There are real cherries out there that are greatly undervalued (ie great bargin) and there are some that are a mountain of work.

MedSailor

[robwilk37]

as i crawl around the lazerette i see that the rudder post enters well above the ballast in the encapsulated keel. a spade would be placed as far aft as possible, usually right at the waterline, so nothing but an inch or so of fiberglass to hole through. thats relatively easy. would hire a naval architect to draw up the scantlings for the internal tube and hull/deck tie-ins. weve don it on kettenburgs with wonderfull results. ive worked on many boat mods that people said were impossible only to find the work rewarding in the end. reminds me of the porsche engineer who told me i was an idiot to try putting a small block chevy v8 in my 914. now companies build a conversion kit to do just that. i dont mind trying and failing, if im the first to try this thats ok, i was just curious if anyone had tried it before me. and other than rot in virtually all the wood and poor electrical systems, what else should i be looking for? certain year? layout? thanks

[TQA]

Originally Posted by robwilk37

considering the purchase of this boat. not exactly nimble. has anyone considered or actually retrofitted a spade or skeg-hung rudder on this hull form to improve handling? and yes, i know its a big job. and it doesnt open much of an aperture, but could help...especially backing.

interested in comments, thanks

The only time the handling is a real problem is reversing so fit a bow thruster.

[robwilk37]

yep...considered a thruster, just thought an open rudder might 'fill to sails with one gust'.

[cardiacpaul]

Hey, go for it.
Please post pictures of the progress.
Oh, if you wouldn't mind, a rundown of the man-hours labor, and material costs too.

I think its great that you want to refit a boat that some marine architect drew up, some factory made and have hundreds of them on the water performing just as designed, and put what you obviously feel is a better design on it yourself.

This is how improvements are made everyone, This is why Jaguar put in the smoothest 6 in the world, and the sweetest v-12 into cars and theres now a dozen companies out there putting in small block v-8s, right?

[robwilk37]

ok, i should have been more clear at the outset. what i forgot to add was "all robot monkey, hero worshiping, take everything as is and dont try to improve, led around by the ring in your nose, chew grass with the rest of the herd, followers...need not reply.

because yeah if someone made it it must be perfect in every way, thats why every boat/car/house/cell phone/widget is exactly the same and works flawlessly at everything it does and never gets revised or modified. we can all just kick-back now and relax because everything we have is the best it can be and who are we to question, right?

if anyone has some experience retrofitting rudders on anything id appreciate your input, the rest can move on...