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Sailing couples in difficult/emergency situations

4K views 21 replies 14 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 ·
How do cruising and sailing couples make quick decisions together in difficult/emergency situations if they come up with conflicting solutions?

My wife and I have been sailing and cruising together on weekends and holidays for one year, but sometimes we have disagreements over our course of action during difficult emergency situations- like anchoring in a crowded and windy anchorage, getting ungrounded, getting out of weeds/kelp, etc. Sometimes we come up with different plans in such situations, and think each others plans won't work- so we waste time arguing instead of implementing. I usually insist that (because I have more experience) that we try my plan first and not argue- but then she's angry with me afterwards for not listening to her. Especially since sometimes her plan is actually better, and once mine fails we end up using hers.

I'm generally considered the "Captain" because I'm the one most interested in sailing and have been boating my whole life, and read a lot of books on seamanship. She's extremely smart and confident in difficult situations, but she's not as obsessed with sailing as I.

I think that in an emergency there's no time to debate various plans, and the Captain needs to give orders that aren't second guessed, even if his plan is inferior. She agrees with this conceptually, but it makes her very angry and frustrated to have no input, and carry out a plan that she doesn't understand or agree with. I value her opinions and want her to enjoy sailing.

Any suggestions?
 
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#2 ·
I don't have your problem because my wife has very little experience. Hence, I can make all kinds of bad decisions and she won't know until I tell her later.

However, we have faced this issue in non-sailing situations. The trick is to discuss and agree on it beforehand. I think there are three general "rules".

1) One person needs to have the final word in any emergent situation. Decide ahead of time who that person will be for which types of situations. It isn't always the same person for all situations. This person will issue instructions and make decisions which the others will follow.

2) If there is time for input from the crew, that input will be given and acknowledged without rancor. If there is disagreement on course of action, see #1.

3) If the decision maker doesn't feel there is time for input, see #1.

It may be that you will be best served by giving your wife the ability to make decisions in emergent situations. She is, as you said, a smart woman that handles difficult situations well. Give her the power to make the decisions and to decide on when there opportunity for input from you. You may find that you have fewer arguments, she will hone her own skills and knowledge since she will have the responsibility, and that she may defer to your opinions at times more easily since it is up to her to do so.

Just an idea....
 
#5 ·
She is, as you said, a smart woman that handles difficult situations well. Give her the power to make the decisions and to decide on when there opportunity for input from you.
I like this idea in theory, but she's too busy (a graduate student) and not really interested enough to study "best practices" for various hypothetical emergencies whereas I spend a lot of time thinking about, studying, and planning for them.

During an actual emergency, I usually don't feel like there's time to describe my plan fully, and let her decide. Her ideas are very good, but she's usually not even aware of common emergency techniques that I've studied.

We could decide/agree beforehand on a course of action for the most common types of emergencies, but it seems like when sailing totally unexpected variables usually occur during emergencies, and pre-arranged plans need to be quickly changed and adapted to the specific situation by drawing on all of your knowledge, experience, and tools.
 
#3 ·
One person should be ultimately responsible for any decisions made aboard...preferably the one with the most sailing experience. Sailboats can not be run by committee, especially in dangerous conditions.

If someone is singlehanding the boat for any reason, they should have ultimate responsibility for making any decisions during their watch. If they have doubts, then they should wake their spouse/partner and get their input.

Input from the crew should be considered, and often will be at least as good, if not better than the ideas of the captain... Having multiple viewpoints on any issue is a good thing, provided it doesn't interfere with making a final decision.
 
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#4 ·
Oh.. this is ONE of MY Favorite topics!! :mad: I already have this picture of you with your brawny arms crossed as you assert your captain's rights, not because your a know it all...because your male.

Suggestion ( you asked) .. go crew on boat with a fully qualified woman as captain. You will then know how your wife feels.

I humbly submit your not a sailing couple. It's your ego trip, she's just along be cause she loves you.

Suggestion; ck your ego at the dock.

Suggestion; let her take the boat and some lady friends out for a day. You stay home. :rolleyes:

Who's at the wheel/tiller when you dock? Who has to do the lines? Who has the upper body strength to pulll the anchor up? Who has to drop the anchor? Who does all the yelling? who prepares the food? who serves you while your at your "rightful" place (behind the wheel) :laugher

Does your wife ever get the wheel unless you happen to feel that you want to do her a favor? :hothead

sorry.. I was feeling kind when I posted this :hothead

here's some good reading on the topic! ----> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersailnet/60079-womyn-never-called-captain.html
 
#7 · (Edited)
I humbly submit your not a sailing couple. It's your ego trip, she's just along be cause she loves you.

Suggestion; ck your ego at the dock.

Suggestion; let her take the boat and some lady friends out for a day. You stay home. :rolleyes:
You're right- she's not as interested in sailing as me, and she's willing to go with me, but she isn't interested in learning how to do everything to sail without me. I also do activities with her that I don't like as much as she does!

Who's at the wheel/tiller when you dock? Who has to do the lines? Who has the upper body strength to pulll the anchor up? Who has to drop the anchor? Who does all the yelling? who prepares the food? who serves you while your at your "rightful" place (behind the wheel) :laugher
At home we're equals and don't follow normal gender roles- I do half the laundry, half the cooking, half the cleaning, etc.

On the boat she does everything she has learned to do. I take the tiller when docking, hoist and douse the sails, pull and drop the anchor, and I do all the cooking (propane BBQ) because she isn't very interested in learning them. She usually plans the food and pre-cooks some things. Nobody does any yelling ever.

Over time I hope she'll learn how to do these things and do them as often as I do- but I have been boating my whole life, and already knew them before we met.

Does your wife ever get the wheel unless you happen to feel that you want to do her a favor?
She usually has the tiller more than I do because she's good at it, and it makes her less seasick. I usually trim the sails while she steers.
 
#8 · (Edited)
i am just curious, casioqv, how many of "most common types of emergencies" have you had in your years of sailing. The reason I ask is I only had one in 35 years of sailing, and that was when we were run down from behind by a 45 foot power boat. By the way my wife was the only person left on deck as I was thrown overboard by the collision. My wife kept her head about herself and saved me. I think a sailing couples should have the skills to save themselves or each other if the time comes.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/8103-can-happen.html
 
#12 ·
i am just curious, casioqv, how many of "most common types of emergencies"
Also, if you two are running into lots of emergencies while sailing, then you maybe should rethink your planning or equipment. If it is just a matter of dealing with normal awkward moments while docking, anchoring, jammed halyard, loose sheet, etc.
We haven't had any serious emergencies sailing, just usual difficult aspects of sailing- anchoring in heavy winds, getting the motor stuck in weeds with no wind, etc.

My question is mostly hypothetical- I'm wondering how/if other couples adapted the normal concept of captain/crew to their relationships in a way that lets them deal with emergencies efficiently while remaining fair and equal.
 
#9 ·
Hey now, don't be so hard on casio. He has a valid point, but that point is a casualty of the gender battle. Let's rephrase:
How do crusing and sailing CREWS make quick decisions if they come up with conflicting solutions?

Look, the answer is easy- prior to departure, determine which crew member is designated as "responsible" for that cruise/ watch/leg. Said crew member is responsible for all outcomes and solutions, and also gets to take all credit for all success. If they wish to helm, great, if not the first decision they are responsible for is designating a helmsman. Therefore and thereafter, that responsible individual has the choice of soliciting advice, accepting opinions and/or issuing orders without asking for input... BUT, they are also responsible for successful outcomes as a result of their decisions. This has been how my wife and operate and there is no yelling, no pouting, and less tension. generally, we alternate responsibility.

Note that the key is to make this decision BEFORE you cast off. Coming up with a plan while the feces is impacting the ventilator is generally not going to end well.

My wife was once like casio's- a passenger more than a crewmember. A funny thing happened when responsibility became a shared burden- she became a lot more interested, and enjoys actively sailing more... and she doesn't solicit input- she solves the problem. As she has told me, "When I'm responsible, do you want me to waste time seeking your opinion, or do what i damn well plan to do anyway?"
 
#13 ·
How do cruising and sailing couples make quick decisions together in difficult/emergency situations if they come up with conflicting solutions?

...

Any suggestions?
Person who has the wheel (or tiller) has command (even if they release it to another for a time). Choose who that person is before you get into difficult/emergency situations. Has worked well for my wife and I, though my wife normally prefers to let me be that person. Both agree as equals to let the other take charge during that time. Then switch back and forth.

Perhaps you could set up situations where you feel comfortable letting her take the wheel. I think you will find that she is competent enough to take on the standard things that come up in a normal day of sailing. After that - let her take on more challenging things and prove herself to you. I doubt it will be long before you realize she is capable or she realizes she may want to defer to you at certain times. Either way - her knowledge of sailing will go up as she thinks about situations and the solutions you can both talk about later (or, perhaps, your assessment of her competence will, go up as you see how she handles things).

Of course part of it is realizing that there just isn't that terribly much that has to go wrong on a sail. If you are wearing your PDF, have reasonable weather, and are close enough to see shore - what is the problem? It would take a pretty difficult situation to drown in a mooring field. Avoid the days that lend themselves to such situations, then relax with her at the wheel.

Hope it works out for you :)

Oh..... good grief...
deniseO30 - I understand you might be annoyed at the apparent chauvinism in casioqv's comments. However - when someone comes to ask for advice about how to deal with things in a way that is equal and fair, please don't kick them in the face.

I have gone sailing with a male friend many times, and I am almost never comfortable letting him have control. Only after sailing with him many times and progressively letting harder situations come up have I been able to keep my mouth closed and let him be captain. Asking for advice on how to be better should always be rewarded.
 
#14 ·
Perhaps you could set up situations where you feel comfortable letting her take the wheel. I think you will find that she is competent enough to take on the standard things that come up in a normal day of sailing.
Thank you, I think this is the advice I was looking for. I think she'll have more fun and enjoy it more being the Captain- but perhaps at first on a calm day on our local lake.

I think that perhaps the problem is that I was pushing us too hard, like doing a week long offshore trip when she had only been sailing with me a few times in a lake beforehand. If we're going to be equals and take turns sharing the responsibility- maybe it will help to limit ourselves to conditions/trips where we both have the skills to handle.
 
#15 ·
I can admit when I'm wr.. wrr wrr... wron.... g! Sorry Casio I've chilled out, just got home from my mostly male Yacht club meeting. I'm sure your not the brute I think you are, giggles. I did, I did, use great restraint here on this thread... LOL but it is a open forum... just like my womyn are never called captain thread :)
 
#16 · (Edited)
OK, you could be my husband and myself.:)

I think the suggestion to have your wife take over during mellow times is a good idea. Fight the desire to "correct" her along the way the whole time. If you see she's going astray give her the option to get your insight (ie "Your losing wind in the sails, do you want some recommendations on how to adjust, or do you want more time to figure it out on your own?")

Remember all the mistakes you've made along the way. You may be trying to ensure she doesn't make the same ones, but don't forget that making those mistakes were probably a big part of how you learned. Encouraging her to learn sailing skills means opportunities to make a judgement call that may not be the right one right off the bat.

Also, communicating with her about why you're doing something (when you can) isn't a bad idea. I know when things are going well it's easy to not think to do it, but you're not going to want to do when there's a lot happening at once.

When giving instructions (and generally no one likes to be given "orders" by their loved one), make sure you are clear and specific about what you want done. "Head to port" is vague. "Head to port and keep heading to that red bouy in the distance" is much clearer and you are more likely to get the response you want with fewer questions.

I know I ask questions to get a better sense the game plan. "Head to port" starts this process in my head. "How far to port? A little, a lot? For how long? Why are we doing it this way? Ok I've gone to port, is there anything else I should be doing? Does he see that lobster pot? Is this working out the way he thought it would? Why don't we do X instead?"

I give you full props for looking for ways to improve the experience for both of you. In the end, having TWO confident and competent people on board can only be a positive.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I think any sailing couple on here that didn't experience some friciton/or period of adjustment at least initially is either lying or one of those infuriatingly perfect couples who hold 12 course dinner parties and renew their vows in Paris every 5 years :) :)

I am very sorry to confess that early on in my initial sailing with girlfriend(now my wife) days, this issue popped up frequently. I only had a little experience and she had none. Almost every trip out proved to be a real relationship building exercise !

The real turning point for us, as Denise and others have kinda also pointed to was when she went off and got sailing lessons and then started building an experience base separate to her time out with me through sailing frequently with other people.... In addition to gaining sailing experience, she got used to taking direction from a skipper, without the complication of that skipper being her husband......

The other issue in those early days was that she largely didn't have confidence in me or my sailing ability...with good reason.... I had no idea what I was doing......

Over time a strange two-fold change has happened......Now I always listen to and consider her opinion, because it is an experienced, intuitive and :eek: :eek: :eek: ok yes sometimes more sensible non-male view on a situation......

Correspondingly she also now trusts me and my judgement........she has over our years together seen me extract us out of a tricky situation more than a time or two and while she would never admit it she now figures that maybe some of the time I may actually know what I am doing :)

Overtime we have just become more natural and comfortable......we know each others ways, we can now hoist the main/reef/Anchor/berth the boat in a marina without exchanging so much as a word, I know whats she doing, and trust her to do it and visa versa....

Now I guess if it comes down to it, I am probably the skipper and I do have the final say, but I can't remember the last time I have had to think of it in those terms.....now we just do our thing....and it is in complete contrast to those first few times out together......
 
#21 ·
I would agree strongly with Chall03's advice. I have a great deal more experience than my wife (more than 30 years more) but she has learned remarkably quickly because I have encourage her to do anything she feels comfortable doing. Probably the biggest challenge is getting her to be confident in her abilities.

Couple of thoughts:
- we never do anything (eg entering a new harbor at night) unless we are both comfortable with the idea; ie one of us will suggest an action and if the other is uncomfortable we back off and think about it so more
- I agree with other posters about you having so many 'emergencies'. Getting the motor stuck in weeds is not an emergency, you are in a pretty secure spot, anchored by the weeds - you have lots of time to talk through your options. In 40 years of sailing I can think of two emergencies that I have had and in both cases, after an immediate response (in one case, emergency first aid) there was time to figure out how best to proceed.
 
#22 ·
The longer we sail together the better it becomes. I have significantly more experience than the Wombet but she is both stubborn and argumentative.

Getting it through to her that debating an order is not a good idea took some time but we got there. OTOH we usually work things out between us and when sailing whoever is on the helm gives the commands though on occasions she will ask for advice. What is important is that the more experienced person on board works to bring the other up to speed. A working partnership is so much more fulfilling that a master serf relationship.

Denise...when I read your first post I nearly went ballistic. Sexism runs both ways you know ? We live in the 21st century and quite frankly it really pisses me off when someone automatically assumes that the bloke does the steering and the little women does the cooking. Hey, I know you were having a bad day and it appears I may have forgotten to take my happy pills this morning but nonetheless, it wrankled. My point of view is that while there are some tasks on board better suited to the physically stronger person we work towards making such tasks easier for the weaker.

Trantor....anyone calls the Wombet 'Admiral' had better be quick on their feet. OK so I don't like being called Captain either but calling a woman Admiral is to my mind pathetically condescending.

In passing, decades back a group of us went away on a charter. I was designated skipper and when we came into a town to do some shopping we were forced to drop one of our number off in the dinghy to go to shore. The other bloke on board completely wimped out. Refused to do it and I confess I did my nut. Then I heard a quiet little voice from the smallest woman on board saying that she had done a lot of rowing and could easily do the job, which she did with aplomb. Squelch. Thoroughly deserved as well. It has stayed with me.
 
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