Sailing couples in difficult/emergency situations

[casioqv]

How do cruising and sailing couples make quick decisions together in difficult/emergency situations if they come up with conflicting solutions?

My wife and I have been sailing and cruising together on weekends and holidays for one year, but sometimes we have disagreements over our course of action during difficult emergency situations- like anchoring in a crowded and windy anchorage, getting ungrounded, getting out of weeds/kelp, etc. Sometimes we come up with different plans in such situations, and think each others plans won't work- so we waste time arguing instead of implementing. I usually insist that (because I have more experience) that we try my plan first and not argue- but then she's angry with me afterwards for not listening to her. Especially since sometimes her plan is actually better, and once mine fails we end up using hers.

I'm generally considered the "Captain" because I'm the one most interested in sailing and have been boating my whole life, and read a lot of books on seamanship. She's extremely smart and confident in difficult situations, but she's not as obsessed with sailing as I.

I think that in an emergency there's no time to debate various plans, and the Captain needs to give orders that aren't second guessed, even if his plan is inferior. She agrees with this conceptually, but it makes her very angry and frustrated to have no input, and carry out a plan that she doesn't understand or agree with. I value her opinions and want her to enjoy sailing.

Any suggestions?

[dhays]

I don't have your problem because my wife has very little experience. Hence, I can make all kinds of bad decisions and she won't know until I tell her later.

However, we have faced this issue in non-sailing situations. The trick is to discuss and agree on it beforehand. I think there are three general "rules".

1) One person needs to have the final word in any emergent situation. Decide ahead of time who that person will be for which types of situations. It isn't always the same person for all situations. This person will issue instructions and make decisions which the others will follow.

2) If there is time for input from the crew, that input will be given and acknowledged without rancor. If there is disagreement on course of action, see #1.

3) If the decision maker doesn't feel there is time for input, see #1.

It may be that you will be best served by giving your wife the ability to make decisions in emergent situations. She is, as you said, a smart woman that handles difficult situations well. Give her the power to make the decisions and to decide on when there opportunity for input from you. You may find that you have fewer arguments, she will hone her own skills and knowledge since she will have the responsibility, and that she may defer to your opinions at times more easily since it is up to her to do so.

Just an idea....

[sailingdog]

One person should be ultimately responsible for any decisions made aboard...preferably the one with the most sailing experience. Sailboats can not be run by committee, especially in dangerous conditions.

If someone is singlehanding the boat for any reason, they should have ultimate responsibility for making any decisions during their watch. If they have doubts, then they should wake their spouse/partner and get their input.

Input from the crew should be considered, and often will be at least as good, if not better than the ideas of the captain... Having multiple viewpoints on any issue is a good thing, provided it doesn't interfere with making a final decision.

[deniseO30]

Oh.. this is ONE of MY Favorite topics!! I already have this picture of you with your brawny arms crossed as you assert your captain's rights, not because your a know it all...because your male.

Suggestion ( you asked) .. go crew on boat with a fully qualified woman as captain. You will then know how your wife feels.

I humbly submit your not a sailing couple. It's your ego trip, she's just along be cause she loves you.

Suggestion; ck your ego at the dock.

Suggestion; let her take the boat and some lady friends out for a day. You stay home.

Who's at the wheel/tiller when you dock? Who has to do the lines? Who has the upper body strength to pulll the anchor up? Who has to drop the anchor? Who does all the yelling? who prepares the food? who serves you while your at your "rightful" place (behind the wheel)

Does your wife ever get the wheel unless you happen to feel that you want to do her a favor?

sorry.. I was feeling kind when I posted this

here's some good reading on the topic! ----> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersai...d-captain.html

[casioqv]

Originally Posted by dhays

She is, as you said, a smart woman that handles difficult situations well. Give her the power to make the decisions and to decide on when there opportunity for input from you.

I like this idea in theory, but she's too busy (a graduate student) and not really interested enough to study "best practices" for various hypothetical emergencies whereas I spend a lot of time thinking about, studying, and planning for them.

During an actual emergency, I usually don't feel like there's time to describe my plan fully, and let her decide. Her ideas are very good, but she's usually not even aware of common emergency techniques that I've studied.

We could decide/agree beforehand on a course of action for the most common types of emergencies, but it seems like when sailing totally unexpected variables usually occur during emergencies, and pre-arranged plans need to be quickly changed and adapted to the specific situation by drawing on all of your knowledge, experience, and tools.

[deniseO30]

Oh..... good grief... Be back after I get my galoshes on!

Wonders if the wife is reading any of this

[casioqv]

Originally Posted by deniseO30

I humbly submit your not a sailing couple. It's your ego trip, she's just along be cause she loves you.

Suggestion; ck your ego at the dock.

Suggestion; let her take the boat and some lady friends out for a day. You stay home.

You're right- she's not as interested in sailing as me, and she's willing to go with me, but she isn't interested in learning how to do everything to sail without me. I also do activities with her that I don't like as much as she does!

Originally Posted by deniseO30

Who's at the wheel/tiller when you dock? Who has to do the lines? Who has the upper body strength to pulll the anchor up? Who has to drop the anchor? Who does all the yelling? who prepares the food? who serves you while your at your "rightful" place (behind the wheel)

At home we're equals and don't follow normal gender roles- I do half the laundry, half the cooking, half the cleaning, etc.

On the boat she does everything she has learned to do. I take the tiller when docking, hoist and douse the sails, pull and drop the anchor, and I do all the cooking (propane BBQ) because she isn't very interested in learning them. She usually plans the food and pre-cooks some things. Nobody does any yelling ever.

Over time I hope she'll learn how to do these things and do them as often as I do- but I have been boating my whole life, and already knew them before we met.

Originally Posted by deniseO30

Does your wife ever get the wheel unless you happen to feel that you want to do her a favor?

She usually has the tiller more than I do because she's good at it, and it makes her less seasick. I usually trim the sails while she steers.

[bubb2]

i am just curious, casioqv, how many of "most common types of emergencies" have you had in your years of sailing. The reason I ask is I only had one in 35 years of sailing, and that was when we were run down from behind by a 45 foot power boat. By the way my wife was the only person left on deck as I was thrown overboard by the collision. My wife kept her head about herself and saved me. I think a sailing couples should have the skills to save themselves or each other if the time comes.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...an-happen.html

[bljones]

Hey now, don't be so hard on casio. He has a valid point, but that point is a casualty of the gender battle. Let's rephrase:
How do crusing and sailing CREWS make quick decisions if they come up with conflicting solutions?

Look, the answer is easy- prior to departure, determine which crew member is designated as "responsible" for that cruise/ watch/leg. Said crew member is responsible for all outcomes and solutions, and also gets to take all credit for all success. If they wish to helm, great, if not the first decision they are responsible for is designating a helmsman. Therefore and thereafter, that responsible individual has the choice of soliciting advice, accepting opinions and/or issuing orders without asking for input... BUT, they are also responsible for successful outcomes as a result of their decisions. This has been how my wife and operate and there is no yelling, no pouting, and less tension. generally, we alternate responsibility.

Note that the key is to make this decision BEFORE you cast off. Coming up with a plan while the feces is impacting the ventilator is generally not going to end well.

My wife was once like casio's- a passenger more than a crewmember. A funny thing happened when responsibility became a shared burden- she became a lot more interested, and enjoys actively sailing more... and she doesn't solicit input- she solves the problem. As she has told me, "When I'm responsible, do you want me to waste time seeking your opinion, or do what i damn well plan to do anyway?"

[casioqv]

Originally Posted by deniseO30

Oh.. this is ONE of MY Favorite topics!! I already have this picture of you with your brawny arms crossed as you assert your captain's rights, not because your a know it all...because your male.

I don't think it's fair to say I'm only the captain because I'm a male with an ego trip. There's no reason why a woman can't be captain, and I have three friends whom are women captains of their own boats, and all more experienced than I, but my wife isn't. She's pretty new to sailing and boating in general, and is just interested enough to come along with me. I hope she has a good time, and decides to learn more and become a qualified captain herself IF she wants to.

Originally Posted by bljones

Let's rephrase:
How do crusing and sailing CREWS make quick decisions if they come up with conflicting solutions?

I don't think the rephrasing works- because in a marriage (mine anyway) both individuals are equals, and equally share burdens and responsibilities. This conflicts with the normal military-like hierarchy of a vessel with a captain and crew which I don't think is a conducive arrangement for a married couple.

I don't want to be the captain and give orders- I would like to make all decisions together, or take turns sharing this responsibility if possible. That's the problem I'm asking for help with- how do we manage emergencies quickly together, without having one of us always taking orders from the other? I'd like to take turns being in charge but she doesn't have the experience (yet) to do so.

The situation could be equally reversed- with the woman the captain, and the husband/boyfriend the crew when she's the more interested and experienced one. I've met several couples like this. It doesn't happen to by our particular situation.