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  #1  
Old 09-13-2010
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World sailing without a (US) passport

I'm not sure if this would be better in the Off Topic / politics section or here.

But anyway, let's say that some time in the future, for reasons that would belong in the politics section, that the United States becomes becomes hated world wide. The anger is so wide spread that if you travel to a foreign country you will likely have serious problems. Maybe the customs people won't want to let you in, or will steal from you. The citizens will hate you, much like the Japanese Americans were treated by Americans during World War II. They may justify stealing your boat and everything you have as payment for the crimes of America.

This may be a bit exaggerated ... or it may not be. The anti-American sentiment is already quite bad in some places. I know some missionaries in France back when there were all the protests against the Iraq invasion who were talking about how if they moved to this one other country that they should "hide their American passports and just be completely French". I think these feelings have worn off somewhat since then. But we haven't had any major foreign policy related events, like new wars, since then either. Well with Iraq most people were not directly affected, yet they were still quite upset. Just like how we don't protest wars when there is no draft, since they aren't directly affected. If another war starts, or some kind of economic trouble occurs which affects the rest of the world and affects the people directly, or at least America is blamed for it, then everyone will be affected directly, so I would expect many times more outrage against Americans. There are other things too, which belong in the politics section, but should the rest of the world learn of these crimes, the world's view of America could become quite bad, much like we thought of Nazis during WW2.

So, are there any poor impoverished places where you can go where they don't really care about passports and stuff, or a small bribe will take care of it? I'm not really concerned with being able to get in to the wealthy socialist and economically isolated places that have duties on imports where people typically like to go, like North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and so on.

How hard is it to get a foreign identity?

If worse came to worse and I just wanted to be able to go somewhere, or if I just wanted to fell some freedom for a while, aren't some very remote northern areas where I could go and never see anyone else, at least not from the government. Maybe like up North in Canada. The opposite of this spectrum would be a populated impoverished place where nobody really cares if you come, since everyone is trying to leave. So that's why I was thinking the problematic places would be those which are economically isolated, have a minimum wage, and where you don't find people making $1 a day.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-13-2010
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You could buy yourself a conch republic passport and travel the world. If fact if you are down in key west people compare their Conch passport for who has the most country entrance stamps.
Citizen Passports

Diplomat Passports

CONCH REPUBLIC PASSPORTS




Currently the only "authorized On-line source" is:


Conch Republic Passport Control
613 Simonton Street
Key West, FL/CR 33040


For more information on obtaining a Conch Republic Passport in person during your next visit to the Conch Republic, please contact:

Office of the Secretary General
613 Simonton Street
Key West, FL/CR 33040
Phone305) 296-0213
FAX: (305) 296-8803

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Old 09-13-2010
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Once religion rears it's ugly head why would anyone want you.
Drop that and enjoy but then again we have the money.
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Old 09-13-2010
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Don't worry

I think you overlooked something important...

With Obama as our leader now, there is no need to worry about International relations. Now that he has apologized to the world for our behavior, the world will love us. There will be no more hate or war.

We are the world~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
I'm not sure if this would be better in the Off Topic / politics section or here.

But anyway, let's say that some time in the future, for reasons that would belong in the politics section, that the United States becomes becomes hated world wide. The anger is so wide spread that if you travel to a foreign country you will likely have serious problems. Maybe the customs people won't want to let you in, or will steal from you. The citizens will hate you, much like the Japanese Americans were treated by Americans during World War II. They may justify stealing your boat and everything you have as payment for the crimes of America.

This may be a bit exaggerated ... or it may not be. The anti-American sentiment is already quite bad in some places. I know some missionaries in France back when there were all the protests against the Iraq invasion who were talking about how if they moved to this one other country that they should "hide their American passports and just be completely French". I think these feelings have worn off somewhat since then. But we haven't had any major foreign policy related events, like new wars, since then either. Well with Iraq most people were not directly affected, yet they were still quite upset. Just like how we don't protest wars when there is no draft, since they aren't directly affected. If another war starts, or some kind of economic trouble occurs which affects the rest of the world and affects the people directly, or at least America is blamed for it, then everyone will be affected directly, so I would expect many times more outrage against Americans. There are other things too, which belong in the politics section, but should the rest of the world learn of these crimes, the world's view of America could become quite bad, much like we thought of Nazis during WW2.

So, are there any poor impoverished places where you can go where they don't really care about passports and stuff, or a small bribe will take care of it? I'm not really concerned with being able to get in to the wealthy socialist and economically isolated places that have duties on imports where people typically like to go, like North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and so on.

How hard is it to get a foreign identity?

If worse came to worse and I just wanted to be able to go somewhere, or if I just wanted to fell some freedom for a while, aren't some very remote northern areas where I could go and never see anyone else, at least not from the government. Maybe like up North in Canada. The opposite of this spectrum would be a populated impoverished place where nobody really cares if you come, since everyone is trying to leave. So that's why I was thinking the problematic places would be those which are economically isolated, have a minimum wage, and where you don't find people making $1 a day.

Any thoughts?
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Old 09-13-2010
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This thread clearly needs to be in the very off topic area...

Yeah... just pretend you're Canadian.. (rolly eyes emoticon here).

Good lord, just be yourself. It works wonders regardless of your passport... assuming you're not a jerk. The world actually likes Americans to get out and about... it's much better for them. Xenophobia just isn't good for anyone, including us.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 09-13-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 09-14-2010
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I'm going to try and stay on topic and not take the political bait. You seem to be asking about the comfort and security of sailing to other countries as an American Citizen. Keep in mind that 99% of Americans can only see or learn how they are perceived through the media. People will watch a flag burning and, most importantly, the intersected commercial, long before an interview with an 80 yr old Frenchman whose town was liberated from Nazi occupation by the Americans. That's a marketing fact and news programs have to make money. Even PBS has to engage its viewer to send money. News has become widely separated from information in America, it is now primarily entertainment.

Before I go on too long, my point is that most of the planet has and continues to admire American citizens and/or our way of life, even if they take issue with our government. This was the case during the height of what we perceived as anti-American sentiment. The American people have been played like marionettes for political purposes. Add the world's people who just don't care and you're going to drop in to most parts of the world without issue. If you travel to experience other cultures, even if you don't prefer them, you'll find it very comfortable. If you travel to defend our policies or way of life, I guarantee you will find an argument wherever you go, whether you are a conservative or liberal.

I wouldn't sail to the middle east right now any more than Japan in the 1940s. There will also be hostile third world countries for the remainder of our lifetimes. Visiting some of them can have less to do with what country you're from than what wealth you have with you that can be taken.

Go in peace my friend and you'll enjoy every minute.
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Old 09-14-2010
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World opinion of the US has improved a lot over the last few years, but we are still pretty low on the list of nations that aren't just outright crazy. Hmm, or maybe we are at the very top of the list of nations that are just outright crazy. ;-)

At any rate, I think trying to use a shady passport would cause you more trouble than it avoided.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Speaking as a military member who has traveled to at least 18 different nations, I tell you that "absence of a passport" will not prevent you from being identified as a U.S. citizen.

I was a submariner, not an Army guy with crew cut hair so I was pretty non-descript looking. When abroad, I avoided denim jeans and other clothes and behaviors that blatantly identified me as an American, and no matter where I went, or what I did, I was instantly identified as an American.

Whether in Belgium, Norway, or Bahrain or the United Arab Emirates, it didn't matter. When I would ask these people how they knew I was a U.S. citizen, the answer invariably was that it's in our body language. U.S. citizens are often proud (or arrogant if you prefer), and it shows in how we carry ourselves, the way we walk. As soon as you open your mouth and speak to interact with someone, that only seals the verdict. We don't exactly sound like any other nation either.

All not having a passport will do for you, is make it more difficult for you to invoke any protective agreements between the U.S. and the host nation that you might be able to take advantage of.
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Old 09-14-2010
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I would much rather have an American or other first world passport than one from some poor third world country. Take a look at the immigration requirements for most countries--if you aren't from the first world then they want advance visas, which can be almost impossible to get.

Even in the middle east, we were made welcome by almost everyone. You are viewed as individuals, as they know that you are not responsible for the policies they detest.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
When I would ask these people how they knew I was a U.S. citizen, the answer invariably was that it's in our body language. U.S. citizens are often proud (or arrogant if you prefer), and it shows in how we carry ourselves, the way we walk. As soon as you open your mouth and speak to interact with someone, that only seals the verdict. We don't exactly sound like any other nation either.
When I travel abroad, I recognize Americans miles away. We are fat and talk loud. :P

Back to topic:
I think Canadian Citizenship is most easy to get. You can buy your citizenship for about $300K, may be more now.
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