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A Long Sail with Courtney on a Very Small Boat.

4K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  gedaggett 
#1 ·
As many of you know this past year the “Sail with Courtney” event took place in August. I was not able to participate this year for multiple reasons but have a plan to not only participate next year but to do something very special to honor Courtney’s memory and also raise money and awareness for the cause of fighting breast cancer.

My goal is to raise money and awareness by sailing a small boat (Vanguard 420 or similar) from New Buffalo, Michigan (Possibly Michigan City) to Racine, Wisconsin arriving on the day of the Sail with Courtney rendezvous 2011 (about a 130 NM trip). This is a very ambitious undertaking for me for a variety of reasons. I am a relatively new sailor and have only a little experience so I have a lot that I have to do and learn before setting off on this endeavor. Also I have a lot of work to do in order to obtain a boat, outfit it and sea trial before the targeted start of the voyage. Also the raising of money will be a large undertaking as I want this to be a very beneficial event for the recipient organization. All proceeds will be directly given to a Non profit and if a boat is donated rather than loaned it will be sold with all proceeds also being donated to the Non Profit. (I am in the process of validating the relationship and getting their permission to affiliate with them Name forthcoming)

There is so much that needs to be acquired or donated in order to make this successful. From a boat, custom PINK “Sail with Courtney” sails to the logistics of places to stay for my layovers, etc. Here is where I need the sailing community’s help. Having not been in the sport for very long I do not have the relationships and contacts that many of you do. If you have any contacts or know of people who may be willing to help with this event please pass on the word. You can PM me for contact information to pass on for those not on this forum.

Immediately what I need is to work out some of the itinerary stuff by figuring out what is a realistic distance to be able to cover on average and what kind of small boat should I be trying to allocate. I want the boat to be 13-16ft so in to keep with the spirit of the sail. I will have a land based support team that will help me with everything from updating a Blog to dropping off needed equipment, gear etc. Any initial input, advice or information is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Gary Daggett
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Probably figure on about a 4 knot SOG average depending on currents with a normal type 16' daysailer...I have know clew about your physical abilities to make 130 miles at speed in a 420 so cant comment on that...it will be brutal.
 
#4 ·
I am 33 years old 6"1' 185lbs and in pretty near top shape. I have very good lower body strength and a strong core. Obviously I would need to get out no what ever I am sailing to get the true feel for what I need to work on but a work out regimen will be part of the deal. As far as Currents I typically will only have minor movements as I will be on the near shore (within 1.5 miles of shore) I was hoping for at least 3knots so If I average 4 I will be very happy.
 
#7 ·
I didn't catch that. I will definitely chat him up on that. It does seem like a great little boat and arguably the most stable of the Micro-cruiser segment. One of the down sides is its poor light air performance but I plan to fit it with a 150 or 155 Genoa as all account point to that significantly improving the performance and the boat will not be over canvased up to about 7-10 knots with the foresail that size. the cabin is a huge bonus as I can stay on-board at my layover destinations and has a good deal of stowage.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Lovely boats, nicely overbuilt.... But you do realize the Michigan City to Chicago leg will probably be upwind in summer? And that the ComPac16 is one of the least weatherly boats on the planet? And slow? PHRF 318. OMG. You'll arrive in better shape than if you sailed a 420, but you'll take two to three times as long getting there. The Monty 17 is 40 points faster and just as solid.

Not to discourage the small boat idea -- I think it's brilliant. :) I'd even advise keeping to the dinghy side of things -- not least because safe harbors can be hard to find along those lake shores, and weather can come up really really fast. It's nice to have a boat you can haul up onto any shore and wait out the ugly. So why not look for a small boat built for open ocean sailing but with a good turn of speed? The Mariner 19 and Wayfarer Dinghy immediately come to mind. The Wayfarer would rate under 200 PHRF, yet people sail them all over the world -- including the Solent and Bay of Biscay. The Rebel is an awesome piece of work. And while they are pricey, the Precision 15 is both faster and infinitely more stable than the Int'l 420. A 250# centerboard will do wonders.;)

We're totally behind you on this idea. Let's all pick our brains to find Gary the best boat available for what should be an epic journey! Tell you what -- when you find the boat, if it lacks a light air headsail, get me the particulars & I'll sew you up a nylon Code Zero that's easy to handle and will keep you moving in the mornings and evenings. My contribution to the effort.:)

ETA: Oooh, ooh, how about the Norseboat 17.5? Tough as nails, carries lots of stuff, and you can land at villiages along the way to loot & pillage. Also it rows well.
 
#11 ·
Great insight, Honestly i thought that the added fortitude of the CP16 would allow me to sail in greater variety of conditions (obviously to a limit) I would like to stay 16ft or under if possible. I know it might seem arbitrary but to me that number sticks out as challenging to find a boat that will do it and still be a challenge. I want it to be a challenge, I want people to say "Wow that is crazy" or at least feel like it is a challenging voyage. I will check out some of those suggestions you have offered on optional boats. I know for the CP16 4.5 knots is really moving. And it will require long days of sailing and maybe even dawn to dusk on the water. But there may be days when I get the Southlake 2-4 footers with wind out of the N by NW all the way around to the East and having a boat that can handle that comfortably and make great time is very appealing and why i was thinking the CP16 would be a good choice.

Thanks so much for the offer on the code zero I will keep that in mind and every little bit will help tremendously and that is more than a little bit of an offer. Thanks again for input and I welcome all of it. I definitely don't want to be proud or arrogant about what I am trying to do as I know so many of you have more experience and knowledge about this than I do. I just want to make a difference for some and honor those that we lost.
 
#10 ·
I second the Mariner 19
 
#13 ·
Wow. After delivering a new-to-me long keeled 7000 lb Bristol 27 from Chicago to Milwaukee... that sounds like a challenge! We had 3-5' swells from the NW and more wind chop heaped on top from the NE.

I would suggest a boat that has positive floatation, and reliable handheld communication to shore.

(My trepidation at this time may be caused by the news that the guy who bought my Catalina 22 recently sank the boat in strong winds. He's fine, the boat's history)
 
#15 · (Edited)
Wow. After delivering a new-to-me long keeled 7000 lb Bristol 27 from Chicago to Milwaukee... that sounds like a challenge! We had 3-5' swells from the NW and more wind chop heaped on top from the NE.

I would suggest a boat that has positive floatation, and reliable handheld communication to shore.

(My trepidation at this time may be caused by the news that the guy who bought my Catalina 22 recently sank the boat in strong winds. He's fine, the boat's history)
Understood. I have been out in that mess on a Benny 305 and 39 and it is no joke the way they build on you. Anything I take will have Positive flotation (even If I am adding it) and I will have two VHF hand held radios, Signal Flares, Weather Band radio, Cell Phone, a fully packed ditch bag, a borrowed co2 inflatable Life raft and EPIRB. That is kinda why I was leaning toward the 450LBs Ballast keel in the CP16 and 1100lbs displacement and self bailing cockpit. And Hopefully I will be very wise about what blow I go out in. I understand that NOAA forecast is often wrong. I have 2 Children under the age of 6 and I plan on them having their Dad for a long time to come so much as I have anything to do with it.
 
#14 ·
Here ya go: impeccable timing!:D Couple of 16' Wayfarers in your neck of the woods:

1972 Wayfarer Sailboat in Excellent Condition Estate Sale price

and one for $500(!!!!!):

Wayfarer 16ft. sailboat

A P15 in Madison, WI for $600 (!!!):

15' Precision Sailboat

Here's my thoughts on your original choices: they mark opposite ends of the Wee Boat Spectrum. The 420 is moderately quick but is a collegiate OD racer meant for two buff, hard-hiking crew. It is wet, physical, and unballasted. It has few depowering options. Even a fit lad gets tired hiked out for eight hours, and add an inevitable capsize or ten to a baseline of fatigue, you have a recipe for trouble. You would be hard-pressed to sail more than 40 miles a day in a 420 in Great Lakes conditions. You'd log that by 2PM, then collapse and vomit on the shore.

The ComPac 16 is less physically stressful, but you will have to be at the helm for 16 hours a day to make make your 40 miles. Tacking angles of 130 degrees are stressful in their own way -- like, you've been sailing since 6AM and you still haven't fetched that damned lighthouse. ;) Add typical Lake Michigan chop and you may actually lose ground some days -- the CP16's shoal keel makes shocking leeway in those conditions. Also, any 16' boat is going to pitch like the devil in the short-period chop of those lakes, so there may be some wisdom in a boat that skims over their surface rather than wallowing in the troughs.

So your metric is: physical demands over a short period vs. (relative) comfort over a long period. I'd look for a boat somewhere midway along the line between an unballasted, open CB racer and the CP16, which is built like a HumVee but -- alas -- sails like one, too. That's perfect on an inland lake, or for toodling in circles around the bay. But you are passagemaking here, and VMG matters.

Hmmm. How about a beach cat, or a small trimaran like the Fulmar or the Windrider 16? Here's one in Mighigan for $2k:

WindRider 16 Trimaran Sailboat

You'd have to be on your game, but that kinda applies to anyone sailing Lake Michigan alone on a 16 footer.;)
 
#16 ·
So your metric is: physical demands over a short period vs. (relative) comfort over a long period. I'd look for a boat somewhere midway along the line between an unballasted, open CB racer and the CP16, which is built like a HumVee but -- alas -- sails like one, too. That's perfect on an inland lake, or for toodling in circles around the bay. But you are passagemaking here, and VMG matters.

Hmmm. How about a beach cat, or a small trimaran like the Fulmar or the Windrider 16? Here's one in Mighigan for $2k:

WindRider 16 Trimaran Sailboat

You'd have to be on your game, but that kinda applies to anyone sailing Lake Michigan alone on a 16 footer.;)
Bob,

Thanks again for the insight (Simultaneous post by the way) I understand your point. I want to make sure the trip plan is clear. I am not going straight shot across the lake from Michigan to Wisconsin (that would be very foolish of me to do at my level and experience.) The last thing I want to to be hanging on to the South-lake Buoy waiting for a very disgruntled SAR crew to snag me off of it with a basket dangling from that fancy red and white helicopter they have. My goal is 15 - 20 miles a day and only cutting corners when the conditions will be right for the entire 16 hour sailing day. Even if I only average 2knts I can make my 20 in a 10 hour day. I understand the quandary I have to choose some where in between the much opposite ends of the spectrum. On one hand I have the TUG that is a CP16 and the other a Pond boat like a 420. I definitely feel like erring on the side of caution and stability after all fast does me no good if it is on the bottom or turning turtle ever 1/2 mile. But then again this is my first rodeo so I don't really know how the mules are going to kick. Maybe I need to get myself out on some boats before the end of the season and see what I think.
 
#17 ·
changed my focus here a bit on the boat choice. I think I am going to go more for an open boat like an Oday daysailer. After some input from a friend confirmed something I was starting to feel, a boat like a cp16 is not that much of a challenge as far as sailing that distance. I want this to be something that is a challenge and not something that just anyone would go and do. I want the voyage to be something that will bring attention to the cause so I am going to sail a more challenging boat but still keep the safety in mind.
 
#18 · (Edited)
So don't take this wrong...but is the attention for you or for Courtney's cause?

Making it risky or dangerous is your own attention getting ..IMHO

Id be focusing on what other will be possibly focusing on...just saying is all..:)

Like I tell my kids...its not what you ment to say its what I hear that matters...;)
 
#21 ·
(please understand my tone here is not combative but just wanting to answer the question honestly, I am not offended at all by the question.)
I completely agree with T34C on his response to the question. That is why am I listening and considering everything that people are saying in regards to this. There are two ends of the spectrum with this and I want to find the most effective way of doing it. Like T34c said the key is fund raising and for those lost to be honored. If I wanted to just sail over to Racine I would just Hitch a ride with someone from Michigan and be done with it but that is not the purpose nor is the purpose for me to be able to say "hey look at how great I am look at what I did" I really don't care if people even know my name let alone who I am, as long as they know what I am doing and why and then in turn they feel motivated to give to the cause. That cause is not me sailing to Wisconsin it is to give help and support to those young people who are facing cancer. I am not going over Niagara Falls in a barrel here, I am sailing a daysailer across two boarders on Lake Michigan. And if that event can leave people feeling "wow he is doing something very challenging just to get support for this foundation I should really check this out and support THEM." then I will be very satisfied and proud of what i had done. If that does not happen and I do not raise a great deal of money for the foundation then I will have failed. The question was a fair question and I likely would have asked it had I also been on the other side of this, I hope I have effectively answered it.
 
#19 ·
It obviously is about the Sail with Courtney event, but the key is fundraising. If out siders don't see the trip as challenging, there will be no inspiration for them to reach into their wallet. IMHO For this to be successful, it has to be attention getting. How that attention is handled will make the difference between it being about GG- or Courtney.
 
#20 ·
It obviously is about the Sail with Courtney event, but the key is fundraising. If out siders don't see the trip as challenging, there will be no inspiration for them to reach into their wallet. IMHO For this to be successful, it has to be attention getting. How that attention is handled will make the difference between it being about GG- or Courtney.
I agree with this 100%..:eek:

Carry on
 
#22 ·
g - from a "marketing" perspective, you're kind of in a Catch-22 as Still points out. In order to fundraise from the general public you'll need to do something that will capture that public's attention. And you know as well as anyone - that that bar is exceedingly high, and not altogether rational. Either the public needs to be fully informed of and firmly behind the cause, or they need to feel like they're throwing in money to witness something grand or crazy. And if you take the latter route, it quickly becomes about you...not the cause. Hence, still's point.

In my opinion, you should make some serious initial progress on your own. Maybe buy the boat yourself - or raise funds through your friends and family first. Then document your process of getting yourself and the boat ready for the sail - all the while talking about why you're doing it. That will give people what they need to decide whether and how to help.
 
#23 ·
Great insight. I was actually planning on footing the bill for the boat and outfitting it myself. I don't want someone to be able to question my motives in thinking I am doing this just to get a boat. As soon as I have the boat and the approval from the foundation I will start doing as you said with documenting the progress. I will update as things move forward.

Thanks
 
#24 · (Edited)
I don't know what is one of the major one design classes in that area...but it seems to me organizing a race over that course with many different participants would bring more awareness to the cause then what one man alone could do.

You could have say a 100.00 race entry fee and then have individual racers
get themselves sponsors on a per mile basis...say anywhere from 10 cents per mile or 10.00 per mile..or more...You would effectively have many boots on the ground spreading the word and drumming up support.

Personally I think the media would pick up on that quicker and keep it in the spotlight longer then just your effort alone.

If you got 50+ racers from say 1 or more class designs all out there racing for Courtney's charity its going to have the excitement your looking for.

Come up with a name for your 150 mile course and it potentially would grow every year into something major.

Courtney race week..or Courtney cancer awareness one off classic.....Im sure you can do better..:)
 
#25 ·
It needn't be dangerous -- just challenging. A ComPac16 will get you to Racine eventually, meaning the outcome isn't in doubt, just the timetable. OTOH, it would be strange to promote life-saving awareness by risking your own. Multiple capsizes in a cold lake are bad news.

The others have made good points here and have made them with tact and grace. I think you are onto the right idea: a small, open or semi-open boat; one that is physically challenging to sail without being capsize-prone. This is more like running a marathon than playing Parkour in a minefield. Something most people couldn't or wouldn't try, but fully justifiable for a skilled, fit skipper in an appropriate boat. Are YOU strong enuf -- it's about challenging our limits, finding our own hidden reserves.

And raising money. If you do this alone, put up a web site w/ a PayPal button where we can sponsor you per voyage, per leg, or per mile. Be clear about your mission and where any monies raied are going, and get yerself a 501(c) designation for accountability.

Not sure a race is suitable, but you could make it a regatta in the social or promenade sense, with campouts and parties and media stops and fundraising at each port of call. Take area people fighting cancer out for a daysail. Maybe the local TV gerbils will give you 30 seconds on the evening news.

Your vision, your call. Sometimes a private gesture is its own monument. I had a friend who ran an ultramarathon in Africa and dedicated it to his mother's fight with breast cancer. Another who put up a scary climbing route, ropeless, to honor a friend who died in a car wreck that week. Nobody knows about the climb or remembers the accident, but it's there and it meant something to the guy who climbed it. Noble motives are their own justification. This isn't a case of someone using a flimsy 'cause' to foot their $70,000 peak fee so they can climb Everest. (Which happens, unfortunately.)
 
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