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Man Overboard!

3K views 23 replies 18 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 ·
I had a bit of a surprise this weekend, as did the boat I was on - the dreaded MOB. The weather was bad, water was just as bad, all were properly equipped with PFD's & we were headed up to the start line when the foredeckie suddenly disappeared from view. Neither he or any of us knows exactly what happened, but then, who does? One second he's there, & just as suddenly he's not.

Fortunately, as he flipped, fell or otherwise went off the boat, he grabbed for the lifelines & got a tight grip. The rest of the crew was able to pull him up & back onto the boat within a minute or two, so we didn't need to have someone point or toss any devices in his general direction. Had he not held on for dear life & the others not gotten to him within seconds, it could have been disastrous, given the conditions.

What shocked me was my own mind going blank. As often as we've reviewed MOB procedures, I figured I'd know what to do. Right now, I could go over the steps, but at the moment I needed to think, I couldn't. Now I know I need to work more on knowing what to do so as to make that more automatic. It sure wasn't at that point.

Nobody ever plans to go overboard - it's an accident, or it would never happen. We still don't know how it happened, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't holding onto anything, as per boat rule: one hand holding on at all times. But I don't know that for sure. He had no reason to not hold on at that time. Would that have helped right then? I don't know & neither does anyone else.

So how often do you & your crewmates review these procedures? How well do you think you could react if you had to? Have you had any experience with MOB? How did things go?
 
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#2 ·
We did a Sunday of live drills this year just before the Around Long Island Race with 5 real MOB

Glad we did as we went from the illusion of using the block and tackle on the boom to lift someone back on wearing a life sling to using a halyard for the needed extra lift
 
#5 ·
Actually, he wasn't doing foredeck work at the time, he was just up there next to the mast. It was before the start & we had no plans at that point to put up the chute on the downwind leg, due to the winds. I don't think he was forward of the mast. He was standing at midship, for whatever reason. He could have sat down. I don't think he'll do that again. At least, I'd like to hope not.
 
#11 ·
How big is big, and how bad is bad? Subjective words are tough to quantify. To the OP, how about TWS? Estimated wave size and frequency?

In the situation above, we know nothing. If I were to guess, in a start sequence, the thing most likely to toss someone whose crossing ahead of the mast, is getting on the wrong side of the lazy sheet in a tack or gybe, and getting launched when it loads up.
 
#7 ·
So how often do you & your crewmates review these procedures? How well do you think you could react if you had to? Have you had any experience with MOB? How did things go?
We make it a habit to treat any "hat overboard" a MOB practice.. and we lose (and recover) a lot of hats..

I've been the foredeck guy that fell of the deck and grabbed the shrouds for dear life.. our local race fleet has had incidents where a boat capsized and 3 people were in the water, in winter, but thankfully all recovered by various racing boats nearby.

This past Easter there was a spectacular man overboard incident in 50 knot winds and large sea conditions - two persons were swept away from the boat, both recovered by another crew on a J30 - each recovery took over 20 minutes and persons afloat probably spent a good half hour or more in the water.. Again, all survived but it was a close thing - incredible seamanship and courage by the recovering crew - who had their own issues aboard, never mind the conditions.

I guess you really never know how you'll deal with such events until they happen....
 
#8 ·
I do not know how to link to a previous post that I made, sorry. (somebody please PM me and tell me how for next time).

OK - here is my post:

Hi all - this is a long post - sorry!

I have to share this because I agree 100% with the posts so far. I
use this when I teach the Boating Class.

Rik & Linda Hall (we wear or Mustang inflatables!)


============================

Does Crew Overboard equal dead crew?

I sent out this email to one of my sailing listservs. Included are some of the replies.

(1) Greetings. I been messing about on boats since 1950. I have
taken Basic Boating, Piloting, Advanced Piloting, Off-shore Cruising,
Seamanship Sail and some others. I teach Basic Boating and tomorrow
night's class is on "Emergencies"

OK - I know the theory, I have read Sail, Cruising World, Tanzer
Talk, Practical Boat Owner, Chapman Piloting, Annapolis Seamanship, etc.

Have any of you actually, really, retrieved an unconscious person
from the water? Or a even a simulated live person - one where the
"victim" really does not help one bit? I don't want second person
stories here - I want to hear from someone who actually did it!

We have good friends who cruise (seven years doing it - across the
BIG POND and all). They have the rule that a "man overboard" is a
dead person.

I await your replies!

(2) Some years ago I was cruising with a friends who had a 28-foot
wooden Nova Scotia sloop. I was sailing my Tanzer 22. Off Wolfe
Island we spotted a fishing boat overturned and in the water were
momma, poppa and two kids, one about six and the other about four.

Momma and poppa were obese -- REALLY obese. Papa weighed at least 300
pounds and momma weighed more than 250 pounds. Judging by skin colour
(I used to chase ambulances as a police reporter) the two adults were
in shock and close to death.

My friend in the 28-footer hoisted the kids out of the water, then
jumped in and roped them in mountaineering style (he had coast guard
training in the UK). Then he climbed aboard and winched them up on
his main halyard, a wire cable heavy duty halyard with a mast winch.

Certainly I could not have managed this on Galadriel. I would have
had to put down a ladder and pray that they were not too comatose to
climb it. The kids I could have handled. (The family dog was trapped
in the bow of the fishing boat and went down with it.)

I used to conduct regular man-overboard drills. This involved
throwing something in the water, stepping into the cabin and
announced that I'd had a heart attack or something and they must
rescue the item -- a cushion, a bumper.

Then one day just out of Picton I tried this with my kids and one of
them, reaching for the cushion, lost his balance and went overboard.

I was pretty fit and about mid-forties then. My son was super fit, an
athletic teenage. We had one hell of a time getting him aboard. In a
serious chop on Lake Ontario we could have lost him.

I realized that my smug little rituals were entirely irrelevant.
Getting anybody aboard a Tanzer 22, with its fairly high freeboard,
is difficult and dangerous.

From then on I have concentrated on preventing people from falling
overboard, and from ensuring they have proper flotation devices on in
all but the most benign conditions.

My wife understands the "heaving to" process and can retrieve
something from the water. She could not hoist me aboard if I were
unable to help, and would have difficulty even then. She'd have to
stop the boat, install the swim ladder and help me up.

There was a case in Toronto some years ago when a woman fell off a
charter sailboat and went straight down -- they never found her. Why
she wasn't wearing a PFD I do not know -- the skipper was a pretty
responsible guy from all I heard.

JAG -- T22 #559

(3) I have been messing about in boats since 1963, mostly in small
keel boats. In June, 1997, I was sailing my Tanzer 22 Riki (#407)
with two friends who knew nothing about sailing and a wife who was
definitely a neophyte. We had just left the Suttons Bay, MI, marina
and were perhaps 200 feet off in 30-40 feet of water. No one was
wearing a PFD. The weather was calm with a light breeze and sun;
temperature maybe 70 or so. It was a perfect day. The outboard was
running at medium speed and I went forward to get the jib up. I
slipped and fell into the water and came very close to drowning.

a. First, there was the shock of the VERY cold water. Traverse Bay
water is still very cold in the early summer and although I am
usually a fairly strong swimmer, I felt a kind of creeping paralysis.

b. My first action was to push AWAY from the boat, because I had
fallen off on the side with the outboard and I was in danger from the
propeller.

c. No one left on board had a clue about what to do. Although we had
a horseshoe buoy readily available, it took a few long moments before
anyone thought to toss it to me and then it was not tied to the boat.
I had to swim to it; fortunately, they did make a good toss. I was
able to get onto the horseshoe and wait.

d. When they did get the boat turned around and came next to me, the
assumption was that I could climb back on. By that time, the cold
water shock, the exhaustion of being in the water etc. made it
impossible for me to get on board on my own even after I was
maneuvered to the stern of the boat and the ladder. Fortunately, one
of the passengers was a large strong man who more or less picked me
up and pulled me back aboard.

I won't bore you with all the things we learned or changed after this
experience. I hope it will help you teach others. I know it's not
precisely what you asked for, still...hoping it helps.

Jim - Riki T22#407


(4) Two years ago I bought the "Rescue Collar" (Canadian version of
the Life Sling. Instead of 50 feet of line, you get 16.7 meters.) and
during a drifter my buddy and I decided to have a man overboard drill.
He jumped in, I deployed the "Rescue Collar", attached the block and
tackle to the boom and because I'm a hero, proceeded to hoist him to safety.

Well, that was the idea....it didn't work, I couldn't get him into the boat.
First of all, the Tanzer has a high free board, you can't connect the
block and tackle close enough to the victim. If you do get it
attached (without falling in yourself) don't bother using the boom
for the other end of the block and tackle because it wouldn't go high
enough to allow the victim to clear the free board. The best I could
do was use the main sheet halyard and even then had I to bring him
around to the transom and only half way up the swim ladder.

I can not imagine trying to rescue someone in rough weather. I
couldn't do it in flat weather. We tried for almost an hour.

===========

Again - I encourage your FIRST HAND experiences.
 
#9 ·
sorta funny

My wife and I normally cruise by ourselves and one bright sunny afternoon while sailing down wind in British Columbia, my wife had the helm and I was sitting back just enjoying the sun and wind. I had the bright idea that it would be a good time to practice man overboard so I grabbed a deck cushion and threw it overboard and told my wife that I had just fallen overboard. What are you going to do?

She told me to let go the genoa sheet and I said I wasn't there, I couldn't. Well she let go the sheets, started the engine, and went back and picked up the cushion. Pretty good I thought! Then I took over the helm and started to get things back in order. Hmmm, the helm was frozen. Wouldn't turn at all. What had happened? Apparently one of the sheets had gotten overboard and lodged between the rudder and hull. So I went below and changed into my swim trunks and was just about to go into the water when the wife finally had pulled together all the sheets and they were all there. Now what? Well after quite a bit of head scratching and hem-hawing I finally found that in all of the ruckus the autopilot had been engaged and had the helm locked. Boy did I feel rediculous! But it was a great day for a sail anyway!

:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher:laugher
 
#12 ·
What shocked me was my own mind going blank. As often as we've reviewed MOB procedures, I figured I'd know what to do. Right now, I could go over the steps, but at the moment I needed to think, I couldn't. Now I know I need to work more on knowing what to do so as to make that more automatic. It sure wasn't at that point.
Some of the people I was in class with were having the same problem when our instructors kept throwing the life vest overboard when noone was paying close attention. We would be practicing other skills and then all of a sudden, wham!, overboard! It helped us react quicker as opposed to, "ok, prepare for the man overboard skill." Not knowing when it was coming helped quite a bit.

In addition, instead of planning out a figure eight and looking at the wind and aproach, etc. he drilled into our head, "beam reach to beam reach." So, that is all I have to remember now. Immediately change course to beam reach. Sail a few seconds...Immediately change to the the opposite beam reach. It helps simplify the process in my brain.

The only MOB I have done was at the dock in 2 feet of water. Not all that difficult, but pretty damn funny.
 
#14 ·
I had a bit of a surprise this weekend, as did the boat I was on - the dreaded MOB. The weather was bad, water was just as bad, all were properly equipped with PFD's & we were headed up to the start line when the foredeckie suddenly disappeared from view. Neither he or any of us knows exactly what happened, but then, who does? One second he's there, & just as suddenly he's not.

Fortunately, as he flipped, fell or otherwise went off the boat, he grabbed for the lifelines & got a tight grip. The rest of the crew was able to pull him up & back onto the boat within a minute or two, so we didn't need to have someone point or toss any devices in his general direction. Had he not held on for dear life & the others not gotten to him within seconds, it could have been disastrous, given the conditions.

What shocked me was my own mind going blank. As often as we've reviewed MOB procedures, I figured I'd know what to do. Right now, I could go over the steps, but at the moment I needed to think, I couldn't. Now I know I need to work more on knowing what to do so as to make that more automatic. It sure wasn't at that point.

Nobody ever plans to go overboard - it's an accident, or it would never happen. We still don't know how it happened, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't holding onto anything, as per boat rule: one hand holding on at all times. But I don't know that for sure. He had no reason to not hold on at that time. Would that have helped right then? I don't know & neither does anyone else.

So how often do you & your crewmates review these procedures? How well do you think you could react if you had to? Have you had any experience with MOB? How did things go?
I can't speak to MOB specifically. My experience isn't with sailboats. But when in the Navy on patrol planes we drilled all emergency procedures. All the time. Engine fire drills, smoke in the cabin drills, cabin depressurization, prepare to bailout, prepare to ditch, emergency egress, etc. Then we'd change the conditions...egress blindfolded...crewmate overcome by smoke...etc. After each drill, we would debrief and talk about what went right, and what didn't. Then each crew is tested, and timed. Trust me, you don't want to fail a drill. :)

We drilled until we were sick of it. Then we'd do it again. I haven't been in a P-3 in over a decade. But I would bet that I could still pass most of those drills with no hitch, barring circuit breaker locations!

Even when I worked in the squadron safety department, I didn't like drilling. I didn't like being Mr. Hard-nose and making others drill. But I was grateful for it when emergencies happened...several fires, a couple engine fires, etc.

The point of it all is to make it so that when it counts you don't have to think. You simply react. Reading and memorizing procedures and checklists aren't enough. They are a good start, but then you have to drill until everyone hates you. And the drills should simulate as closely as possible real scenarios.

As an aside: One of the most fun things I did once was sit out in the water off Pensacola and let the rescue swimmers drill on saving me. Being hoisted into a helicopter is a blast! :D (Yes...it was part of my 'how to get rescued' training too :p )

So for emergencies, I guess what I'm saying is: "Drill, Baby, Drill!" :cool:
 
#15 ·
Greetings,
Earlier in this thread someone had mentioned working with a MOB victim who could not assist with their own recovery. I was a Helo Rescue Swimmer in the Navy for ten years and a "floater" is incredibly difficult to work with. Even with rescue hoists, strops, baskets and litters, getting an unconscious person out of the water safely is a difficult task that requires training, proper equipment and quick thinking to complete. Weather, sea state and injuries can easily complicate the recovery process. Practice your drills and learn your gear! Lives depend on it.

So Others May Live

John
Atlantic Beach, Florida

P.S. We even used to pick P-3 guys in the bay in P-Cola and "tube slugs" are heavy.
 
#16 ·
dmcMaine said:
Reading and memorizing procedures and checklists aren't enough. They are a good start, but then you have to drill until everyone hates you.
Yep. Practice makes perfect, as they say.

To the OP, you already know what to do. Studying some more isn't going to help. You need to actually do it. Over and over. You need to practice. Then, the next time it happens, you won't stand there frozen, trying to remember what the book said to do. You will just do what you have done so many times before.
 
#18 ·
When I was learning to sail, the instructor threw a cushion off the stern and shouted "man overboard" and none of us moved. He said "man overboard" again and someone said, you threw him off, you go get him. (G)

Eventually we did, we just gave him a hard time of it.

OTOH I've been in a number of "HAT OVERBOARD" recoveries and not all of them were recovered. One helpful boat literally ran down one of the hats, poor thing.

All you can do is practice, preferably with a large float or dummy (i.e. two liter soda bottles stuffed in some old cloths) to get the hang of it.

But as to your foredeck crew, remember, if he falls off BEFORE YOU START, then he wasn't part of the starting crew so you're not obligated to stop and recover him until after you win the race.

"Hang in there Fred, we'll be back in a couple of hours!" Any real dedicated crew would understand the need to complete the race before the recovery. Really. (G)
 
#19 ·
My favorite wool felt hat went overboard offshore in a 25 knot wind, and it was extremely difficult to recover after numerous tacks/passes. This just reaffirmed my practice of using harnesses/jacklines anytime someone leaves the cockpit, in any weather to avoid doing a MOB recovery in the first place. Even the dog has to clip in:
 
#20 ·
Yeah, after it was over all the boats around us told us we didn't have to get him because the race hadn't started yet. He's got a good sense of humor & actually made the first joke about it before we could. Then when we were pulling up to the dock, he said, "I wonder how many of them know about it?" to which our tactician replied, "Are you kidding? They already posted it to YouTube."

We do realize now that we have more work to do learning MOB recovery. For this one we didn't need to throw anything at him, point or those things because he was gripping the lifelines so hard I think there's a permanent bend in them. Not many people get to do that. It was mostly getting him back on board. The driver did turn & try to get the boat heeling that way to help get him back up easier & it worked. Everyone else thought he was trying to run him over but he wasn't & it did speed up the recovery.

Regarding conditions, we'd sailed in harder winds & higher water this season, but the particular place we were sailing in had really fluky winds. They were oscillating fast & across a wide range. Spinnaker work was this side of impossible due to the fluctuations. That may have played a part in his going over because it was the shiftiest I'd ever seen air ever move. I guess it's normal for the area, but most of the boats weren't used to it.
 
#21 ·
While getting the person out of the water may be the hardest part of all, making sure that your crew cable of maneuvering the boat in an MOB situation is paramount. Just showing newbies how to start the engine isn't enough. How would you feel sitting in freezing water thinking "boy, I hope they can get that engine going" as the boat continues to sail further away?

Your crew should be able to pick any MOB up under sail or risk wasting precious minutes (and losing sight of the MOB) trying to get the engine started. This is especially the case on smaller boats with outboards on brackets. How long would it take for your crew to drop the motor and get it running?
 
#23 ·
While getting the person out of the water may be the hardest part of all, making sure that your crew cable of maneuvering the boat in an MOB situation is paramount. Just showing newbies how to start the engine isn't enough. How would you feel sitting in freezing water thinking "boy, I hope they can get that engine going" as the boat continues to sail further away?

Your crew should be able to pick any MOB up under sail or risk wasting precious minutes (and losing sight of the MOB) trying to get the engine started. This is especially the case on smaller boats with outboards on brackets. How long would it take for your crew to drop the motor and get it running?
Right on, Navi!!
 
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