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How many times as a First Mate before being a captain

  • Zero. Act as a captain for my first time ocean voyage

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • 1 to 2 times as a first mate/deckhand before I am willing to be on my own

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • 3 to 4 times

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • More than 5 times

    Votes: 10 43.5%

How many times as a First Mate before ....

2K views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  rockDAWG 
#1 · (Edited)
How many times as a First Mate (in ocean voyages) before becoming a captain of a comparable ocean voyage?

Vote in confidence. Your secret is safe with me. :D
 
#4 ·
It's an oddly worded choice, "...before I am willing to be on my own." These opportunities my arise to be a first mate, as they did forty years ago for me, without a choice to defer "captaining". They can be wonderful experiences, but there are many routes to experience. Take care and joy, Aythya crew
 
#7 ·
Based on a limited number of responses, I see a bimodal distribution rather than a bell shape normal distribution I assume of all those replies were successful making the crossing and alive. This indicates that it is not about the training, it is about the willingness to take risk. I may not be wrong. But someone can shed some light here.

In my case, I have only finsihed the ASA 106 Delmarva circumnavigate course early summer, we sailed 30 hours non-stop from C&D canal to Norfolk. I feel very confident that I can be a captain to sail from C&D canal to NYC or Block Island with just the charts and a simple GPS. I certainly do not want to be overly confident as I will study my charts and plan my route accordingly with a back up plans.

To those Captains who sail the open seas and capable of set sails within a few days notice, what is your take? Am I moving too far and too soon. I am no longer a young man with years of time to learn the proper way. I don't want to burden the USCG to save my ass because my stupidity, although I have no problem to pay for it if they save my life. Hey if they fail, my family is not going to pay. :D
 
#8 ·
It's not the number, it's the time as First Mate that I'd be most interested in. And you don't get to be First Mate out of the box, at least in the part of the marine business I'm familiar with.

So:
come aboard as deckhand
learn your job and move up to senior/lead deckhand
learn your job and move up to bosun
learn your job, learn the ships systems, learn the rules of the road, learn emergency procedures, get medical training, how to navigate, correct charts, manage a department, drive the boat and tenders, anchor, dock (side to, stern to, backing in, without use of the thrusters), train others below you and then move up to First Mate.

Being able to navigate, or raise and lower the sails is the easy and fun stuff. It's all the other things you have to know and apply every day that separates the crew member from the captain. The number 1 job of a Captain is to provide a safe passage for crew, guests and the vessel.
 
#9 ·
well said !

Indeed, it's all the other stuff ! Thanks.

Being able to navigate, or raise and lower the sails is the easy and fun stuff. It's all the other things you have to know and apply every day that separates the crew member from the captain. The number 1 job of a Captain is to provide a safe passage for crew, guests and the vessel.[/QUOTE]
 
#10 ·
I think the lack of responses stems from in part the ambiguity of the question. While there are some professional seamen on board here they are not the majority. The terms captain and first mate are professional ones. In real world you have skipper(the one responsible) and crew. The only title I have been given as crew was "galley wench". As Boasum pointed out these things are regulated in the world of pros.

The other source of confusion is offshore vs other sailing. I have sailed 100s of days but only spend 8 of them offshore and felt I would have done a better job than the captain on my one voyage(he left the battery switch on "both" on the first day and we went without power or engine for the last 3 days). I think besides offshore time, how much time have you been coastal cruising or heavy weather sailing are important factors in the decision to act as Skipper offshore.
 
#11 ·
I think the lack of responses stems from in part the ambiguity of the question.
Yes it made a vote difficult for me.

When I started ocean sailing it was not on my own boat and there was more chance of flying than being skipper because the owner of the boat was the skipper - always. And I sailed with other boat owners for several years before getting started on my own boats

On my own boats? I assumed command on all of them from the very first time I sailed on any one of them. And like all of the owners I sailed with in the early years - it'll be a cold day in hell before someone else skippers my boat while I'm aboard.

I don't know which of these fits with the poll so I didn't vote.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Risk? No. Becoming the captain for the first time in blue water is not about the willingness to take risk, although it is a minor factor. If you are going to risk your life, it better be for a damn good reason. I've risked my life for my country but I will not knowingly risk my life or the lives of others for sailing. Sailing is a hobby and is NOT a good reason. As an aside, I must balance my statement by saying also that there is risk in everything we do, and either we accept the risk or we don't do it. Regardless of activity, if we are wise we ensure we understand the risks we take and minimize them or at least reduce them to acceptable levels. Naturally, that wisdom statement means something different to each of us.

To my mind the answer to your question, as with most things, is: It depends. Others have already stated the important factor is not how many times have you been out but how much sea time you have, and I agree that is important. But there are other conditionals that also affect the answer. So characterize your experience on the water/at sea in these ways:
-- doing what?
-- going where?
-- in what kind of weather?
-- how long in blue water ?
-- how long in coastal (< 10 miles from shore) waters?
-- how long in semi-protected waters such as bays?
-- how long in trips short enough that you can guarantee a good weather window?
-- long long in extended passages where the weather cannot be predicted for the entire trip?
-- how long in heavy weather?
-- during what time of year?
-- in what kind of boat and what size?

There are even more factors of importance:
-- What is your age?
-- What is your physical condition?
-- What is your knowledge level from theory?
-- What is your knowledge level from practical experience?
-- How many people are manning the boat?
-- What is the crew's experience level?

You have taken the courses, which is a good start. Were I you, I would want to sail extensively as crew on a bluewater sailboat in extended passages before I went out on a long passage as the captain -- courses are good but they are no substitute for experience. Only by experience can you understand the risks. Only by experience can you be sure you are prepared to handle all situations you may encounter. Only by experience can you reduce those risks to acceptable levels.

So have fund, good luck, and good sailing. I hope you achieve your dream, whatever it might be.

DaCAP
 
#13 ·
Captain Abbott,

It is not my intention to knock the pecking order in the merchant marine world. No disrespect to those who earns the rank through hard work and perseverance. I used the term First Mate loosely. Just like many here refer to their wife as Admiral for some obvious reason. My encounter with boat/sailboat is for pure pleasure and no commercial application. The boats I have been crewed are often just the skipper and me. I am the deckhand, first mate, cook and sanitary engineer.

The things that you mentioned is a given. Because I am older and well educated including in medicine, I have more resources and experiences to tap into than others. Every day, my people come into my office to seek advices regarding their data or results. I make decision every day that will have impact on the quality of life others five to ten years from now. Sailing is a passion just for fun and not mean to make a living for me. I won’t a good commercial captain and I can’t be a good provider for my family
 
#14 ·
Thanks for all replied. I appreciate the effort. Please remember this is Sailnet is a place for leisure sailors to share info and passion of the boat. Don’t overly interpret it. Don’t treat this is a court document . This is not a scientific poll; it is just for fun and treat as a conversational piece. Even with a well-designed poll and experiment, there is always some compromise/assumptions. There are always something is left behind. Don’t mad with me if I failed to include your situation. Just state your story and let us learn from it.

The whole idea I wanted to see is what is the "norm" (if there is one) before one is willing to sail their boat into ocean for the every first time after they learn how to sail.

Peace everyone. I am often in Annapolis, drink on me :) Oh yeah, don’t pick on my grammar either; my secretary is gone for the day. :p
 
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