We are 99% sure we are going engine-less - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 10-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 6,724
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 7
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Being run down by a ship or barge when the wind dies can ruin your day.
Here is more on that subject:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seaman...ead-water.html

Dabnis
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 10-26-2010
QuickMick's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,381
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 5
QuickMick is on a distinguished road
one point to consider if you are going be in a slip it will be hard to manuver in/out when the conditions are ripe for windy sailing. i was futzing around and a guy and his kid/grandkid were going out of the neighboring dock... no motor. windy conditions with significant gusts. they get out in the channel and realize its a bad idea so tack back toward their slip. before dropping the main they get hit with a puff and come in wayyyy hot and crash the bow into the dock.

so i see the same dudes in the parking lot the next day, same conditions and think 'there is no way they are trying this again!!' then i notice they are unloading the scuba gear to asses the damage....
__________________
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean ~ Arthur C. Clarke

Quinn McColly
Macgregor Venture
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 10-26-2010
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 51
Thanked 70 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Well, we are right there on the edge of yanking out the Yanmar.

1- Simplicity - No engine means less maintenance or failure points. One less system to deal with. take a diesel engine class

2- Costs - Obviously when you have no inboard, you have no costs associated with an inboard. No stuffing box to deal with, no fuel, etc.
it will make your boat worthless for resale. If I can do the maintenance you can.

3- Space - The Alberg has a massive amount of space where the engine lives, and when that becomes storage space you gain valuable live aboard space everywhere else. Not only the engine space, but all of the spare parts and whatnot that need to go with it.
just a silly rationalization

4 - Lifestyle - It fits our desired lifestyle and beliefs. We are purists we are coming to realize, and once we go, we won't be under timetables anymore. If we can't sail there "right now", we will wait until we can. Even mariners of old at least had oars

5- Thru hulls - We want to minimize holes below the waterline. There will still be a few, but not as many as now. And no drag from a prop either. That hole is getting glassed over. the holes are already there. they have valves. prop drag is not that much to give up unless your racing, or get a folding prop.

6- Skill - Yes, we have a belief that people sailed hundreds of years without engines, and it takes a bit higher level of skill to sail engine-less. We are coming to find out that we aren't just cruisers who want to get to a destination, we are cruisers who really get into the act of sailing itself. That's a huge part of the appeal to us. The journey and the destination. Sailing into and out of our slip is a favorite thing we do, and we think it reveals something about the way we like to sail. And none of that skill can be used to maintain an engine?

7- Profit, instead of loss - Instead of putting money into the engine before we throw the lines off, we plan to pull money out of it instead by selling it. It runs good and should fetch a few grand that can be put towards other more important things for Heron. This is silly. your own statement says it runs good! It will nearly cost you to remove it for what you sell if for.

Any here cruising without an engine? Thoughts? Have we finally lost it?
You know the answer you don't need to ask for it.
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 10-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 6,724
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 7
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Chris,

Been thinking a little more about this. Before ripping your engine
out you might want to try going out without the engine, life threatening
situations excluded, for a month or so to see how it goes? More here:

Engineless?

Dabnis
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 10-26-2010
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,411
Thanks: 6
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
You know the answer you don't need to ask for it.
Amen.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 10-26-2010
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,112
Thanks: 2
Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 9
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Chris,

Been thinking a little more about this. Before ripping your engine
out you might want to try going out without the engine, life threatening
situations excluded, for a month or so to see how it goes? More here:

Engineless?

Dabnis
Good advice. We broke down last year only 40 miles from home. It took us two days to sail halfway home and we still had Deception Pass between us and our slip. It was another adventure, but it wasn't fun. Like other safety equipment, I'd rather have it and not use it than the other way around.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 10-26-2010
AE28's Avatar
NON member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 546
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AE28 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickMick View Post
before dropping the main they get hit with a puff and come in wayyyy hot and crash the bow into the dock.
Chris:

Crashing into a dock would be your problem, as the dock would probably "win".

I'm more concerned about your crashing into my boat as you try to navigate the fairway under sail only.

Yes, great skill to have, but not at the risk of damaging my boat.

Paul
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 10-26-2010
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Mobile Liveaboards
Posts: 9,894
Thanks: 3
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
I have a 15hp outboard on my tender which is much less weight than your sailboat. I can go through 5 gallons of gas a day pretty easy. Now, that is planning out and pulling kids, etc, but my point is that they are horribly inefficient (my 54 hp diesel yanmar sucks 1 gph at max cruising speed). BTW, my outboard was like $2200 IIRC. Yamaha. New. How much are you going to get for that diesel engine once you rip it out... assuming you can even find a buyer? Plus, instead of storing diesel on your boat, you now are storing gas which stinks and is explosive. And storing gasoline on decks is a real pain in the butt. The tanks get hot and expand and contract and often will begin losing their gas via vapor. And storing it down below where it stays ot of the direct sun is crazy. I hate gasoline... though it is a neccessary evil for us as cruisers (us... not everyone).

I think ripping out your diesel is a terrible idea. Want to go without the engine? Fine. Go without it. But leave it in there and fil up your tanks with diesel. Better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Also (as was mentioned) is the point of charging your batteries - or are you going to go with all solar panels or a gas generator too? I dropped over $7,000 in my solar setup to be independent. If you go the gas generator option, once again, you have to carry even MORE gas. Plus, you now have the cost of buying the gas generator too. WHen this is all said and done, I seriously doubt you will save one penny from ripping out that diesel. In fact, it might cost a small fortune.

I think a diesel engine is a sailors best friend. They are reliable, the are efficient, and they are safe. They are not as reliable as sails, but I have sure spent many a day out there with zero wind and would have hated not having a diesel. I almost always am fighting opposing currents and wind to dock or make a tight channel. And to be honest, there will be many, many, many areas of the ICW that you will not be able to transit under sail.

Brian

PS Yes, all of this is from experience. And the adage that the old sailors did it without engines is not completely true. They had oars and rowed - and did it quite proficiently. And quite candidly, they were a lot better sailors than most of us. But I bet you money that if there were such things as engines, they would have had them aboard.
__________________
Sailnet Adminstrator & Moderator
Catalina 400 Technical Editor

2004 Catalina 400, Sea Mist IV (our boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in S FL and Keys primarily)
1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 10-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 6,724
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 7
dabnis is on a distinguished road
Chris,
Having trouble getting all my thoughts on one post, a "senior moment"
I guess. If you pull the engine you will lose about 400 lbs of weight
down low which may have a negative effect on the boat's stability if
not replaced. Even if you use lead bars they will take up some space
and should definitely be well secured.

Dabnis
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 10-26-2010
chrisncate's Avatar
prwg, NOW!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,639
Thanks: 18
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 5
chrisncate is on a distinguished road
Wow, I would give going engine-less a 99% negative rating in this thread, which I cannot ignore.

Just to clarify, I wouldn't mount a permanent bracket on the transom, I was contemplating other methods (which I won't really get into, suffice to say no permanent bracket). We only have our Chesapeake Bay experience to draw from (since we have never been anywhere else), and around here I know I could get by without and engine, since that is how we sail by default anyway.

I honestly believed we could do this anywhere (since we do it here), but you guys are definitely giving me pause. I guess my vision was us heading down the ICW (and needed a small motor for the portions you can't sail), then once we reach the Keys, basically being in blue water for much of the rest of our journey and being able to rely on sail alone. When I stare at charts of the Bahamas and the Caribbean, and on further to our dream locations, it seems doable but maybe it's just not.

Someone posted earlier asking why I don't also get rid of (then there was a long list of stuff), and to that I'd say we'd like to. I would like to 86 the fridge, as I can't see needing a fridge or the power consumption, we would like to get rid of the hot water (do we need that? I don't think so but after this thread I would like your opinions on that and the others stuff on the chopping block mentioned here), the propane stove (I have never felt safe with that can hanging off the pushpit), and the marine head/holding tank (in favor of a composting head).

I know I am a romantic and a dreamer, and when I get to thinking about living the dream I probably have too much of a tendency to look at the romantic side of things (sailing in and off the anchor, relying on skill alone, etc) and not the reality side of things.

Anyway, like I said, I respect this forums opinions and the numbers against are pretty hard to ignore. I don't know how we are going to proceed, I have a sinking feeling though... that I might prepare myself for keeping the damn thing for awhile more. I don't know. More research is needed at the very least.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much will I pay for used engine? thisiswater Diesel 9 06-14-2010 09:02 PM
How to know if engine is a fuel injection engine 99miles Gear & Maintenance 4 05-31-2010 10:42 AM
well i need some engine help scottyt Gear & Maintenance 18 06-23-2009 11:43 PM
My engine is getting too hot.. groundhog Gear & Maintenance 30 09-04-2007 04:27 AM
Help with Old Engine Whompper Gear & Maintenance 4 09-07-2004 06:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:27 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012