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Dealers Vs Private Sellers

3K views 23 replies 15 participants last post by  cesarid 
#1 ·
So I am currently very active in looking for a sailboat. I have a few in mind at the moment but as I continue my search I am finding some options I did not see previous.
Some of the boats I am looking at online are listed as dealer boats, some are listed as private seller.
What I am wondering is how similar the two are to cars? In dealing with cars a dealer is sure to make it look pretty, pump up the price, and try to make as much $ as possible for them selves. However, a lot of the time buying from a dealer gives you some type of protection, whether it be in the form of warranties or something else.
I bought my car from a private seller because it was cheaper than buying the same make and model from a dealership. However, 6 months later when I needed a new timing belt and PCM, I was left paying out of pocket. Had I bought dealer, I would have most likely been covered under warranty.

So, what are your thoughts on dealers vs private sellers? What are the major differences? Pros/Cons? I know that an exact awnser is impossible to do all the variables, but please use your own experience and knowledge to help in as much as can be helped. Also, if you know any specific dealers with good reputations in or around FL, please feel free to list a link or two.
Thanks all
 
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#2 ·
If your buying used there is NO consumer protection and as a matter of fact there really is NO consumer protection on a new boat compared to what you might get in the automotive world
with lemon laws and manufactures that have deep enough pockets to by back a bad car



I know up here that most of the brokers will sell anything that floats and while some are a bit more selctive its not much


I sold my J24 in the snow in December 2009 and 19 powerboat in June 2010 without issue other than a few tire kickers

The J24 sold at 100% of my carefully picked price the powerboat 500 less than asking both sold through free adds and sold fast becasue they were clean and everything worked
 
#4 ·
Dealers Vs Private Sellers

Might want to consider yacht brokers as well which is a more likely situation for a used boat.

A dealer of new boats can also sell used boats that he owns via trade, auction, etc. Point is that he owns the boat. It is becoming more common for a dealer to “certify” some of his used inventory which would provide some warranty. I have seen this being done with larger power boat companies like MarineMax although not so much with sailboats.

A dealer may also provide brokerage services for boats that he does not own.

A yacht broker is more like a real estate broker. Someone who “brokers” a sale of something that he or his company does not own. No warranties here.
 
#6 · (Edited)
We purchased our previous boat by private sale and our current one by broker. Both experiences were very positive. We used Annapolis Yacht Sales and were very pleased with how they helped narrow our search and how they actually fought for us on the purchase. Keep in mind that a really good broker, while working for the seller, wants to make the sale. Thus, he will "guide" an unrealistic seller's price toward something reasonable, especially if there is a serious buyer involved.

Regarding peace of mind, others are correct when they say that used boats generally have nothing of the sort, whether purchased privately, through a broker, or new boat dealer. However, your comfort will come from a detailed survey. A surveyor, selected by the buyer (without influence from the seller or broker) will find the vast majority of warts on a boat. The survey will not be cheap and the buyer should resist the temptation to go with a cheap "Insurance Survey" and should opt for a "Purchase Survey". When the surveyor has completed the survey (including sea trial) you will have a great understanding of the boat. In our case, our surveyor rescued the sale when she found a structural defect that I missed.

My recommendation is to find the boat that fits your needs regardless of who's selling it. If it's brokered, don't sweat the difference in price. After a couple of years, it won't matter. In our case, we were neutral regarding seller. Our broker found us a boat that we never even saw in our searches. After narrowing our list to 3 boats, we looked at all 3 and bought the 2nd one. The point is that we knew what we wanted, limited the search, and then made a purchase. Broker was secondary; I really didn't care.

Good luck.
 
#8 ·
Personally I prefer buying from a private seller if buying anything but new. As long as you do your research and know how to look at a boat it seems like the best way to go.

I do know and like a few people at Annapolis Yacht Sales though, Dan Nardo is an honest broker I would recommend over there.
 
#9 ·
another point to consider is that a broker typically makes 10% on the transaction, which would probably increase your cost. frankly, i would think that a private seller who 'just loves his baby and hates to see her go' would be more biased then a reputable dealer/broker. brokers do have some rep to protect, and my guy has never told me anything untrue...along those lines i bought her from the sales dept where she is moored, so knowing i would be a customer moving forward (slip rent etc) may have helped the honesty cause--but now ive know this guy a while and he is the real deal in the honesty dept. probably just like anything.... some bad apples are out there no matter if you are buying a car watch stock annuity house gun insurance whatever... maybe ask for referances.

all be it on the purchase agreement it said in huge bold letters AS IS--NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED
 
#10 ·
When buying from a boat it is often not the condition of the boat that should worry you, rather the integrity of the seller or his agent. Genuinely bad boats are hard to hide but anyone can make a dodgy boat look pretty and hide the bad stuff from you.

If you're dealing with reputable and honest people you have a better chance.
 
#12 ·
Dan Nardo is an honest broker I would recommend over there.
Dan was our broker. He was on the boat during the survey but kept quiet and only spoke up when I had a minor meltdown when we found out about a delaminated bulkhead. There was a problem with a sticky shifter and he called a mechanic on the spot to fix it. He's an amazing guy who anticipated our needs and went one step further. Brokers can definitely earn their keep.
 
#13 ·
interesting you mentioned that... kinda made me think about the notion that when buying a boat (or an labor of love) the decision is as emotional as it is financial. how bad was the meltdown? just curious as ive had a few myself.
 
#14 ·
....
Some of the boats I am looking at online are listed as dealer boats, some are listed as private seller...
I read your post as referring to boats OWNED by a dealer..not to be confused with boats listed by a broker. Which is it?

If you are asking about boats OWNED by a dealer, especially boats taken in trade, you have an extremely eager seller, and you can deal in a manner unlike any other buying circumstance.

From my experience, dealers with a trade-in just want to get rid of it, they don't want to store it, fix it up, or even see it..if they can avoid doing so. No warrantee, no repairs, no anything, except a seller who wants the boat gone in the worst way.
 
#16 ·
No clear answer. If you have a particular make of boat that interest you, you may want to contact your local dealer and see if they have a used boat representative. The dealer's used boat rep should be familiar with the product line and you would have a relationship with the dealer after you own. Goodness knows, you will need advice on how to deal with issues on any boat, new or used. The dealer of your make boat should be the best resource. There are exceptions. YMMV
 
#18 ·
I used a broker when selling my last sailboat, simply because they could show the boat 7 days a week and it would take me a two hour round trip to get to the boat to meet a prospect. The broker is a sailing marina with a reputable boat yard, so I knew they'd be fully capable to answer questions about condition and maintenance and repair costs.

However I took my own pictures and posted ads on craigslist and Sailing Texas, and ended selling the boat myself. So I could have saved 10% this time but in general I think the use of the broker will pay off. Also they handle the bill of sale, notary, titling, and can arrange for transport or whatever else is needed to complete the transaction. They made it clear up front that they would not broker the boat unless I had the necessary docs to transfer title - apparently that's quite a common problem. So the use of a broker can be a benefit to purchasers as well as sellers.
 
#19 · (Edited)
how bad was the meltdown?
Not bad. I'm a pretty easy guy with a very long fuse, so I don't go off easily. We were in the middle of the survey and the surveyor was down below in the head tapping away at everything looking for hollows. I heard "Uh Oh" and raced below. The surveyor (Gail Browning) found a totally delaminated port bulkhead caused by a leaky chainplate. A partially delaminated bulkhead was on the starboard side.

At that point I was ready to stop the survey. Combined with a litany of non functional stuff, I felt that the boat was beyond what I wanted to tackle and that no insurance company would cover it. Both Dan and Gail strongly recommended proceeding with the sea trial and completing the survey, which we did. What I did not tell either of them is that I am very experienced in boat work, am an advanced woodworker, and that repairing the bulkhead was not a huge deal.

The meltdown consisted mostly of me insisting on stopping the survey. About 50% was for effect and 50% was real. Fortunately, I listened to them, the purchase price was adjusted, BoatUS covered the boat (provided that I repair the bulkhead, which I did), and Victoria has been ours for 5 years. The punch list is nearly (ever??) complete and the entire experience was very positive. Moral of the story: Listen, think, and get a good surveyor.

Links to Victoria and the Bulkhead repairs follow:

VICTORIA (and her mistress)
S/V Victoria Head Reconstruction
VICTORIA Starboard Bulkhead Repair
 
#20 ·
I think Sabreman was spot on in his initial post
"My recommendation is to find the boat that fits your needs regardless of who's selling it. If it's brokered, don't sweat the difference in price. After a couple of years, it won't matter."
I was looking to buy private, thinking it would save me money; but the boat I fell in love with was with a broker. I probably paid slightly more because of that, but I found the boat I wanted.
As in most things (I have discovered) the boat comes first....(just don't tell the Admiral)
 
#21 ·
You didn't mention what price range you're looking at. This makes a massive difference.

One thing I discovered recently while searching for an inexpensive "starter" yacht is that the people who are looking for something for under $8K will have a completely different experience from people who are looking for something $20-30K, and I imagine that search would be very different from someone looking for a boat above $100K.

I was in the under $8K range, and it was my general observation that brokers had very little to offer in this price range compared to what was available from private sellers. The broker listings I did see were more often than not extremely questionable at the most superficial level.

Another thing I discovered about the $8K price range is that it contains massive gobs of well-used, but generally quite good boats. If you're flexable, and in a major sailing area, you'll find all kinds of boats in this price range from 20 to 30 ft from the 70s and 80s that may be as suitable as vessels $10K more expensive.

The flip side of this is that as the price falls, the market becomes more of a seller's market. A good boat without major problems listed at $5K will probably be snapped up within days, whereas a $50K boat, no matter how good a deal, can safely be counted on to stay on the market long enough to research it, get a surveyor, etc.
 
#23 ·
One observation. Buying privately is no guarantee that the price will be cheaper. Beyond a certain price range, boat buying can not be considered anywhere close to car buying. Most owners of mid to large vessels know the market and are selling privately because they a) really aren't that anxious to sell the boat, or more likely b) looking to maximize their profit.

I'll restate my earlier guidance: Find the boat you you want, that fits your needs, and buy it. But get a good survey first. Go sailing.

The few dollars that one may save by buying privately are nothing compared with what will be spent over the lifetime of ownership.:laugher
 
#24 ·
I think you need to find the boat you want, regardless if private or broker. But given a choice, I would prefer a private seller. You can pick the individuals brain and determine if he/she is truthfull. My experience with a broker, World Class Yacht Sales in Florida, was he just wanted to sell the boat. They listed features on the boat it did not have. Frankly it was kind of like dealing with a used car salesman. I am sure all brokers are not the same, hopefully.
 
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