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post #21 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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"Police are trained when to "
Lilo, that's a nice theory and many times it is true. Sadly...
When Glock brought their radical new "plastic" guns to the US and was trying to convince PD's to rade in their revolvers (REVOLVERS) for the new Glock 9mms, they had a little problem with the NYPD. Now, you would think the NYPD is professionally trained, after all they are one of the largest PDs in the nation. Nope, they had more than a half dozen cops complain that the Glock discharged when drawn from the holster, resulting in shooting themselves in the foot. Literally.

Truth is, the Glock has a trigger safety and cannot be fired unless the trigger is pulled. All those highly trained NYPD were drawing the gun with their finger already on the trigger--and pulling it hard enough to shoot themselves.

As a result PDs all over the nation laugh at Glock's "NYPD trigger option", where the trigger pull on the pistols is just about doubled to make it harder to accidentally shoot yourself in the foot.

Well trained?

Florida doesn't have a monopoly on "Bubba's nephew wants a job" but they also don't have the rep for the nation's finest in law enforcement.

Sounds like some cruisers need to put webcams on the mast, document a few boardings, and then make a few phone calls. Fortunately, there is almost always a state, federal, or civil organization that can and will toss the bad apples out of the barrel.
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post #22 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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I remember a street policeman - a lieutenant no less - tell me half-jokingly "give me 10 minutes, I can find an ordinance against anything you're doing."
He went on to mention playing catch in the front yard, and a few other examples. It was 1982, but I'm just saying ... attitude is everything.

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post #23 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I also suspect the swift in-motion boardings are the result of people running below and shutting the valve as they see the approach. Asking permission to come aboard and check for flares and PFDs is not time critical.

If the violations stopped, I am certain they would move on.

Or vote for someone who will change the law and they will move on.
I see your point, but question the urgency. If they are going to cite the owner for not properly securing the overboard discharge fitting, then conducting a blitz boarding isn't necessary and the risks far outweigh the gains.

Why do the LEO's feel that they've got to "catch someone red-handed?" if not for the potential revenue from a hefty fine?

I grew up in FL, and have some fairly detailed knowledge of the income-driven approach to traffic law enforcement. Waldo -- so notorious that even the AAA formally classifies it as a speed trap -- was only a few miles from my home and sat between me and both work sites and play sites.

I've also spent many, many hours on FL's waterways. In just the past year, we sailed down the Gulf Coast, hung out on a mooring ball in Marathon for a couple of months, and then sailed up the Atlantic Coast. This was done in a vessel registered in Michigan. We were never boarded, an in fact were never even hailed by any of the numerous federal, state, or local LEO's. Exchanged some pleasant waves, but that's it.

I'm not saying that there's anything good about the event that started this thread, but that not every cruiser has horror stories to share. YMMV.
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post #24 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
You really are funny!!
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Cops down there are some of the most aggressive anywhere.
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post #25 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I argue you might all become jaded after having your life threatened multiple times this year, when you unknowingly approached someone with an outstanding warrant, recreational drugs in their possession or consuming alcohol on parole. Scared people to desperate things.
What outstanding warrant was noted??? What recreational drugs were suspected/seen/viewed? What parole was in violatiion, what alcohol was viewed?
The complainant was allegedly simply ****BOATING**** ... is that a valid condition of 'probable cause' ?????????? mm... is that a reason to display the immediate *probable* use of DEADLY FORCE??????

So explain to us how your above statement somehow absolves a LEO from putting a gun to the chest of someone who is 'simply' boating / cooking in the galley and needs to shut down the cooking, etc.' or to terrorize the absolute $#!+ out of innocent others to happen to be passing-by... because he's 'jaded' ???!!!!???!!! Are you actually for REAL?????

With assumptions evident, If you and other LEOs dont clearly understand that most citizens are law abiding but are unknowing of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of inane/arcane laws; and that most citizens are NOT criminals nor POTENTIAL criminals; and If you are also supporting or promoting that each and every citizen now is coming close to be needing to be personally escorted by an attorney (now 1 attorney for every 240 citizens in the USA) so that a normally law-abiding citizen can PROTECT oneself from the seldom enforced, rarely enforced, sometimes enforced, etc etc. exactitude of the LAW; and that most citizens dont know that many/most LEOs can be or are pizzed-off and JADED LEOs ...... please please please consider to get a new job or a job that results in some 'good' for society, officer.
If you disagree with any of this, then truly you ARE become the ENEMY, as from my recent experiences, 'criminals' dont treat the citizen-boaters as badly as the 'water-nazis' in Florida, especially Volusia County.

Last edited by RichH; 11-05-2010 at 08:29 PM.
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post #26 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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Cruising at power, 7 knots, and the officer claims to have heard something below. Typical. And lame.
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post #27 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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I am biteing my lip and going to keep my mouth shut ! you dont really want to know what I have seen ArGGggg !!

EDIT: okok one simple part of it is ....thay train there are good guys ( them) & BAD GUYS ..guess who !!!!!

There is no right way to do the wrong thing
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post #28 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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"So explain to us how your above statement somehow absolves a LEO from " terminal stupidity is what needs to be absolved.

"Captain, are all hands on deck? No? Then call them all up on deck." Going below, into a confined and unknown space with potential threats in it, is terminal stupidity. Sending your man below that way, even worse on the rank that directed it.

Bad police work, bad training, bad policy. What, like Dave's gonna flush the stash into the holding tank before you can get below? ("Dave's not here man!")

Oh wait, let me guess, they had an anonymous tip that a boat was carrying HP laser printer cartridges...The only thing that amazes me, is that the good cops don't get more upset about the bad cops. Who are really pissing in the soup they ALL have to drink. Bad, inept, dumb, incompetent, corrupt, pick a word, any word. Cops like these are a real cops worst enemy.
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post #29 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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I don't know guys, I'm seeing this differently. First, I have no knowledge of what has/has not been happening in FL. I've rarely been there and only a few days in a boat. In the OP report of the incident he doesn't say that he went on deck and then went back down but the Sheriff's report says that after telling whoever was on deck to stay there one of them went down into the cabin and they heard things moving around. This is South Florida, right? Land of drug dealers, smugglers, etc? Unless someone can explain how I'm wrong, I've got to say that if this is the way it happened I don't blame the officer for drawing his weapon. It's hard to swallow that the police have the right to board your vessel basically any time for any reason, but as I understand it that is the law. Until the law is changed when law enforcement officers board me I'll say "How can I help you Officer?". I might not like it, but they have the law on their side and also the guns. $250 fine for unsecured Y-valve is robbery as well as chicken poo IMHO.

SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

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post #30 of 140 Old 11-05-2010
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We have only one side of the story. I'd like to hear the other side before I form an opinion.
keep in mind two words: Tawana Brawley.
or two more: Susan Smith.

I'm not saying the skipper of the boarded boat is hinky, I am simply hoping ot get more input , because there are some things that don't add up to me, starting with a refusal to provide his/her name and/or the name of the vessel.

CD, I'm a little surprised at a moderator being so immoderate.
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