Sinking of Rule 62 - Page 39 - SailNet Community
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post #381 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Originally Posted by Belisana View Post
No, not old. We bought them just before the trip so they were less than 12 months old. We checked all the expire dates before leaving and we (or least, I) checked often to see that the green indicator was showing.

I'm not saying that such malfunctions are common, but if my life may depend on something working, I want it to be 100% and not 95%. Who wants to be in that 5%?
Check that the cartridge is fully seated each time you put it on. Some models are less prone to this issue than others. The ones with the bayonet type fitting on the cartridge are less likely to have this problem.

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As far as reserving foam PFDs for emergency use, you never know when that "emergency" may be and have time to plan for it - and also hunt down or dig out that foam PFD from under a bunch of lines in a locker somewhere. This is just my opinion and I know others who really swear by the inflatable PFDs...

Thanks for the responses.
The Type I PFDs are not hidden or buried on my boat. They're stowed in the forepeak with nothing on top of them or preventing immediate access to them.

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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #382 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
This is what I was typing about earlier. Just 3 hours south you round the Abacos, and you have a leeward side. There's an anchorage just to the west of the tip of the island. By turning south instead of west he would have had the storm on his quarter, and not his beam. Fear & fatigue are a bad combination..........i2f
I don't understand why anyone would risk entering a reef passage when they could take shelter safely elsewhere. Any boat headed to that area needs to keep in mind what I said back in post #97.

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I'd point out that the Bahama banks tend to be really dangerous in heavier conditions. The combination of very shallow waters in the banks and the very deep waters nearby can result in very, very dangerous conditions very quickly.

For instance, in the Exumas, Exuma Sound is almost a mile deep half a mile from shore, but as you go west out of Exuma Sound, you often end up in waters that are less than 20' deep....if the wind is from the east and of any strength, you can see some really hellacious waves forming there. This is pretty common in many areas of the Bahamas.



Trying to enter any of these types of areas in heavy weather is really ill advised.

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post #383 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Other scenario based on what 90% people out there are doing:

They approach the inlet under engine alone, with no back up plan. The engine died, no time to raise sail and maneuver, they are pushed on the reef.

Lesson: always enter the a pass under sail, and keep engine in gear at normal speed to use as an aid/backup. Most people go under engine alone relying on luck to stay out of trouble!
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post #384 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisana View Post
As far as reserving foam PFDs for emergency use, you never know when that "emergency" may be and have time to plan for it - and also hunt down or dig out that foam PFD from under a bunch of lines in a locker somewhere. This is just my opinion and I know others who really swear by the inflatable PFDs...
My foam PFD isn't my emergency PFD, it IS my PFD.
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post #385 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Originally Posted by speciald View Post
Yes - there is a list of the winners of the rally classes.

RESULTS OF THE 2010 CARIBBEAN 1500


Class Boat Name PHRF Elapsed Time + Engine Hrs -Allowance = Corrected Place

1 Hammer DNS

1 Madrugada 12 175:37 00:02 4:15:00 171:24:00 1 (custom)
1 Sunsets 27 166:52 16:19 9:33:45 173:37:15 2 (Mac 65)

2 Club Carp Cruise
2 Between the Sheets DNS
2 Fado Fado 42 173:48 5:31 14:52:30 164:26:30 1
2 Windara 45 178:10 18:25 15:56:15 180:38:45 2
2 Skittery Gussett 45 194:40 26:40 15:56:15 205:23:45 3
2 Magnetic Sky 24 182:12 50:12 8:30:00 223:54:00 4 (Tyana60?)

3 Agua Dulce DNF
3 Special Delivery 57 176:40 20:14 20:11:15 176:42:45 1 (Taswell 58)
3 Joy for All 51 175:05 23:26 18:03:45 180:27:15 2 (Farr50)
3 Zafu 444 48 186:20 21:49 17:00:00 191:09:00 3 (modified J44)
3 Sapphire 51 190:10 57:45 18:03:45 229:51:15 4 Beneteau 57)

4 Kiva DNF
4 Pelekan 96 203:40 00:00 34:00:00 169:40:00 1
4 Mystery 93 186:02 25:54 32:56:15 178:59:45 2
4 Glory 69 193:17 28:03 24:26:15 196:53:45 3
4 Dancing in the Dark 96 197:09 54:43 34:00:00 217:52:00 4
4 Aurora 90 240:30 103:30 31:52:30 312:07:30 5

5 Sophie DNF
5 Smidge 138 186:55 12:51 48:52:30 150:53:30 1
5 Island Time 162 195:10 26:00 57:22:30 163:47:30 2
5 Southern Cross 99 206:28 16:39 35:03:45 188:03:15 3
5 North Star 114 213:23 35:51 40:22:30 208:51:30 4
5 Indulgence 156 239:21 40:36 55:15:00 224:42:00 5
5 Oracle 117 216:52 49:18 41:26:15 224:43:45 6

We were first in class. I don't have my list of entries here - its on the boat. The boats ranged from 65 to 34 feet (a Catalina)
There was a Caliber 33 in there also. They finished near the back of the pack but way ahead of the Catalina that was days behind the fleet leaving the east coast.

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1991 Catalina 36
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post #386 of 636 Old 12-13-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So what does this mean for me (and the majority of the market out there)?

At this point in my learning, and using this tragedy as an example, it means a few general things I think:

1. I need to prepare for the worst as much as I possibly can (gear, knowledge, abilities, strategies, etc.).
2. I need to be extremely (overly) conservative in my sailing, confining my sailing to mellower weather windows (not chancing it), "easier" places to sail, etc.
3. I will have to make sure I have enough capable crew on board to handle the forecast conditions.
4. I will have to do everything I can to keep learning better seamanship and preparedness - and know as much as I possibly can about the areas in which I sail.
5. I will have to practice in gradually more difficult conditions and locations to learn how to handle my boat, crew, and self, in tougher circumstances. (That's why I've always been a fan of BFS).
6. I will have to remember that there is a line that we can't cross - period - especially in light of the boat I have and my abilities. That line may change over time as I get better - but it will always be there.
SD,

Your analysis is good. But remember,you don't need a real "offshore passage-maker" unless you're going to do real offshore passages.

So...........if you're not going to do the North Atlantic in December, or Gulf of Alaska in early May.....

Buy a boat in the islands........there are many for sale coming off charter

Sail it in the islands...........there's lots to see that will keep the mate and family happy for many a year.

Keep it in the islands........Grenada and Trinidad are good options, but insurance companies are relaxing a bit and you could also investigate places like Antigua and St. Lucia for off-season storage.

There are many people who follow this strategy.....get the boat to the eastern Caribbean and never leave!

PS -- Your six rules are good practices regardless of where you sail.
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post #387 of 636 Old 12-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
SD,

Your analysis is good. But remember,you don't need a real "offshore passage-maker" unless you're going to do real offshore passages.

So...........if you're not going to do the North Atlantic in December, or Gulf of Alaska in early May.....

Buy a boat in the islands........there are many for sale coming off charter

Sail it in the islands...........there's lots to see that will keep the mate and family happy for many a year.

Keep it in the islands........Grenada and Trinidad are good options, but insurance companies are relaxing a bit and you could also investigate places like Antigua and St. Lucia for off-season storage.

There are many people who follow this strategy.....get the boat to the eastern Caribbean and never leave!

PS -- Your six rules are good practices regardless of where you sail.
Thanks billy.

It looks like we'll actually be keeping the boat in Florida for the most part (easier to get to and from).

BTW - what kind of boat do you need for a run in the Gulf of Alaska in May?


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Quote:
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The whole lifejacket issue is something I'd like some feedback on. We don't know the type of PFD that Laura was wearing so this may not pertain at all to this case, but this tragic event is something that makes me 2nd-guess the inflatable harness PFD's. If the inflatable tube were to get punctured by rigging of the boat if you're thrown/rolled or by some other hardware that got into the water from the boat, or by a reef, then it woud deflate and be useless. In circumstances like this, it drives home the point - for me, at least - to get a bonafide Type I PFD for offshore passages.
Belisana makes a very good point made here!!!

For years (on shore and off) I sailed with inflatable PFD's to meet our life jacket requirement. On my first Carib 1500, Rick Palm (head safety inspector) looked over my gear and said, "What happens if one of those gets punctured while you're climbing up a cargo net of a steamer who's stopped to rescue you". I smiled and ignored him. We sailed south with our inflatables and we did another 12,000 uneventful miles with them.
But, I never forgot Rick's question. What if....?

Five years later we're getting ready to do another Carib 1500. Again, the safety inspector gets on my case because we don't have inherently bouyant Type 1 life jackets. My reply this time is, "Where do you suggest I store them?" The safety inspector says, "It's your boat. You're the skipper" and asks me to sign off on a waiver because I don't have the "proper gear".

This time I remember Rick's admonition from fives year prior, I swallow my pride and trot off to West Marine -- $300+ dollars later I am the proud owner of 6 cubic feet of safety gear that I have no place to store. All because of "what if...."

Imagine what it might have been like when the mast came down on Rule 62. With the boat rolling in the swell and spars and wire flying around, it's easy to see how a USCG approved inflatable PFD could have been punctured, even before anyone stepped into the liferaft.
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Quote:
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BTW - what kind of boat do you need for a run in the Gulf of Alaska in May?
See Discovery Channel -- Deadliest Catch! Any of those boats will do. (BR did it in mid June. We only had two gales.)
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Then what is the best option for a Type-1 that isn't crazy bulky and is somewhat comfortable? Does such a beastie exist?


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