Sinking of Rule 62 - Page 53 - SailNet Community

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  #521  
Old 12-21-2010
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My first post!

I've been following this thread since Rule 62 had it's unfortunate accident. I've had a lot of questions, many of which were asked here. This incident was very sad but should be discussed logically. Thanks for doing that.

It was a poor choice to head to that cut. I know that. But that's all I really know. However, I've learned quite a bit from this thread. This incident after discussion like this, will be hard to forget.

I don't think it's about the boat. (Hi Jon )
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  #522  
Old 12-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
As for the fittings, did you install them? And, if so, what do they look like and how are they anchored/water-proofed?
The fittings are stainless steel rings about 1" in diameter fixed by long wood screws so that the load is principally in sheer. They work great.
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  #523  
Old 12-21-2010
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Originally Posted by speciald View Post
In my humble opinion, an off shore boat should have a number of design attributes - 1) high stability - righting moment, 2) deep, not flat forefoot ahead of keel to ease entry, 3)Weight (tanks,etc.) centered over keel to limit hobby-horseing, 4) a narrow stern, 5) a deep cockpit with a high bridge deck, 6) all control lines in cockpit, 7) Solid hulls at least to the water line, 8) wide and flat decks. Unfortunately many newer boats have gone in other directions such as carrying the beam aft as far as possible, flattening the forefoot for speed, wide, open cockpits, cored hulls, fuel tanks under aft berth, no flat surfaces forward. Many of these design features are made to increase internal volume at rest and make the boats easier to sell not sail.
Gotta confess, I’m a bit relieved to see – with posts like yours and doublewide’s – that I may not be the only one here that might not subscribe to the notion that all boats are created equal, or that things like the ergonomics of decks and interiors don’t matter 500 miles SE of Hatteras in mid-November, or that one style of boat could not have possibly contributed to the degree of discomfort and exhaustion which plagued the crew of RULE 62 more than any other type of design… (grin)

When I consider the suitability of such a boat for offshore, those flat, shallow hull sections you mention are perhaps the first thing I see… they defy one of the most important indicators of what makes a good bluewater boat, IMHO – which can be best summed up in 3 simple words:

Silence is Golden…

Sailing such a boat in big or confused seas offshore is bound to be a very noisy affair… And, very few among the cacophony of sounds a relatively lightly-constructed, flat-bottomed boat are going to produce will be pleasant… In fact, the unceasing noise well could have induced considerable fear among an inexperienced crew who had never dealt with it before, or for such a prolonged period, and such concern whether the boat could continue to withstand a continuation of the sort of the shocks being imparted on such a hull and rig could have been instrumental in their decision to bail out of the rally… Just a hunch, of course, but it most certainly could have exacerbated the crew’s discomfort, and fatigue…

IMHO, the Noise Factor is one that is an often underestimated aspect of passagemaking, it can really get to you after awhile…The most exhausting passage I have ever experienced was directly a result of this sort of thing… Oddly, it was an unseasonablyly light-air passage from Montego Bay back to Florida, via the Yucatan Channel, and for almost 3 days we endured the slatting and backfilling of a huge main and spinnaker in a lazy, leftover swell… With an 80’ carbon fiber stick tuned tighter than a drum, the noise and shock loads transmitted throughout the entire boat were incredible… Just 2 of us aboard, but no matter how tired either of us became, any sort of real rest or sleep was an impossibility, we were both on the verge of becoming dangerously impaired by fatigue, when we thankfully concluded we had the fuel to fire up the engine, and motor the rest of the way to Key West…

The pic below is of the most seakindly yacht I have ever had the pleasure to sail… No coincidence, she was also the quietest, and her demure nature turned a trip around Hatteras in late January into a relative walk in the park…



Of course, much of that has to do with the extraordinary quality of the work of the builder, Lyman-Morse… But I think most of it derives from the lines originally drawn by those guys at Sparkman & Stephens…



I’m sure many – including my buddy Jeff H, who has already forgotten more about boats and their design than I will ever know – will look at such a design as hopelessly outdated, with its big overhangs, pinched stern, and so on… Well, all I know from my experience with the beautiful FAIRWEATHER, is that it works… I like to think the overall “softness” of the lines are the reason she was such a pleasure to sail, and placed so little demand on the crew in general, but I’ll leave that to the experts to determine…

FAIRWEATHER very well may have been the last boat to have been shown at the Annapolis show that actually features something as pathetically passe' these days as dedicated pilot berths… One of the most exquisite pleasures I’ve ever known offshore, crawling into one of those things at the start of an off-watch – even more luxurious and decadent than slipping into a First Class Pullman berth on the Orient Express, I’ll bet…



She’s for sale, BTW, if anyone’s interested… She’ll take good care of you and your crew in any situation, but that’s not to suggest she still won’t be pretty High Maintenance… (grin)

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1877&url=
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  #524  
Old 12-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AboardIndigo View Post
One of the benefits of a forum such as this is that the time between a fatal incident and the benefit of understanding the potential causes and learning from it is greatly reduced.

This underscores the old tenet that 'in bad weather it's usually safer to stay out unless there's a damn good reason not to' for me.
Well said. Point taken.I hope to well remember that tenet...this thread discussion may save a life or lives...glad we have not deleted it as some proposed..though I realize it might be very hard to read for some who may have known the persons involved and/or the brave lost sailor. Here' that maxim again as "AI" posted it...

"In bad weather it's usually safer to stay out unless you have a damn good reason not to"

Last edited by souljour2000; 12-21-2010 at 08:01 PM.
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  #525  
Old 12-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Silence is Golden…

Sailing such a boat in big or confused seas offshore is bound to be a very noisy affair… And, very few among the cacophony of sounds a relatively lightly-constructed, flat-bottomed boat are going to produce will be pleasant… In fact, the unceasing noise well could have induced considerable fear among an inexperienced crew who had never dealt with it before, or for such a prolonged period, and such concern whether the boat could continue to withstand a continuation of the sort of the shocks being imparted on such a hull and rig could have been instrumental in their decision to bail out of the rally… Just a hunch, of course, but it most certainly could have exacerbated the crew’s discomfort, and fatigue…
Not to necessarily argue your point, but to me it is a bit exaggerated. Have you ever sailed a catamaran on a long passage?

I just sailed from Florida to Colombia earlier this year. We were on a 46' cat. The first time I heard pounding, it scared the piss out of me. However, after a couple of days, I became used to the sound. As with any boat, you grow accustomed to it's voices. On a cat, you can slow down or change course slightly and quieten things down. Wouldn't this be equally true of a mono?

My point is, that I don't think this will drive the crew into hysteria nor increase their fatigue. Don't get me wrong, a nice quiet ride would be nicer, but isn't going to going to get me there any safer. I doubt this had much to do with Rule 62's eventual crashing on the reef. Just my 2 cents.

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  #526  
Old 12-21-2010
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As a matter of fact, the pounding will be more annoying close to shore, or in a bay with steep short wave (a few feet are enough) than far offshore with regular swell, like the 15 ft swell (14 sec) they encountered.
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  #527  
Old 12-22-2010
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Quote:
15 ft swell (14 sec) they encountered.
Would there have also been shorter wind waves on top of the 14 sec swell? Those might launch a surf-board-like boat at the peak?
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  #528  
Old 12-23-2010
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JonEisberg's example of a great offshore boat Fairweather, a Sequin built by Lyman Morse is validated with the 46' Sequin, Mystery, finishing among the leaders of this year's Carib1500.

The winner overall was a HR 43, another well-designed and built offshore boat.

Ronbo
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  #529  
Old 12-23-2010
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If Rule 62 was equiped with the forward scanning sonar such as the Echopilot or Interphase, the captain would have seen the under water reef in real time. I think the Echopilot gold was $800 on sale and the bronze like $500 so not that expensive, but few boats have forward looking sonar. Anyone have experience with forward scanning sonar?
EchoPilot - 3d Forward Looking Sonar
Interphase: Manufacturer of Forward Looking Sonars, Navigational Chart Plotters, WAAS/GPS and Fish Finders
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  #530  
Old 12-23-2010
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Received an email yesterday -"s/v Secret of Life, a Bennetua 46. Ken and Cindy Zigmund of Geneva Ohio were enroute from Brunswick Ga to St. John this past Sunday and not far from there when the boat took on water and sank.
Reportedly a failed shaft packing."

This couple peviously sailed the 1500. They were picked uo by a freighter North of St. Johns. The boat was abandoned and allowed to sink
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