Sinking of Rule 62 - Page 58 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #571  
Old 02-28-2011
BubbleheadMd's Avatar
Chastened
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater/Annapolis
Posts: 2,869
Thanks: 1
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 5
BubbleheadMd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleheadMd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leocat66 View Post
Captain Ross, you sir, have an obligation, to all sailors, to explain what happened out there. You sir are responsible to explain exactly what you encountered and why you reacted as you did. Your failure to do so is an affront to us all.

You have got to be kidding me. He is under no obligation to submit before the Court of Public Opinion for a "virtual lynching" over the internet. You can bet your a$$ that I won't be sumitting a report to you if I ever have a mishap.
__________________
S/V Old Shoes
1973 Pearson 30 #255
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #572  
Old 02-28-2011
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,965
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Get real. In no way do I beleive he should explain that here. The only person/ entity he is responsible to is any legal entity investigating this or his own maker. If he has any type of conscience he is distraught overe the possible contributions he made willingly or not to the death of one of his crew. He will have to live with that himself.

Leocat66 he has no obligation to you, me or other sailors in this matter. I do not want to hear your ameteur criticisms or Monday morning quarterbacking of what happened.

This thread has had many knowlegeable contributors which has helped myself and others in thinking of what to do to prevent this situation/ scenario and how to handle it if we got into a similar fix. You are not one of them and your rant would serve as no learning experience to myself.

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #573  
Old 02-28-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Actually, the one and only group of people the captain of Rule 62 does owe an explanation to is the lost crew member's family. They are the ones who deserve an explanation of his thoughts and reasoning that led to the death of their loved one.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #574  
Old 02-28-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 92
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
xxuxx is on a distinguished road
I guess next in line would be me.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ingasguns View Post
until someone that was there comments,, i believe we have 57 pages of opinions, comments, and speculations... good judgments make the marina most often,,, bad judgments make the marinas but sometimes the news... for one to say what should have been done , without being there,,, that one,,, then,,, could predict to all what should be done...
Since the people that were there are mute, and Laura can't speak anymore, the next people in line would be the people that came after the disaster, the rescuers and the people who spoke with them right after the ordeal. I was so upset over this mishap that I sailed to the Abacos, interviewed the people who participated in rescuing the husband, wife and the guy from Maine. What happened was tragic to say the least; whatever happened to: "the captain goes down with the ship"?? This captain did not go down with the ship and he is no hero. In fact his ship did not go down. It lost its keel, rudder and mast but still was afloat. It had a throw ring and line to throw to Laura who was caught outside the breakers. Does anyone know that piece of information??? She was heard screaming for help outside the breakers. Does anyone know that piece of information??? While the captain owes us nothing, I stand by my previous statement: There is one person to blame and that person is the captain because he used poor judgement coming into a cut in the the Abacos at night and in a rage. Period.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #575  
Old 03-26-2011
billyruffn's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,281
Thanks: 5
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
billyruffn will become famous soon enough
I'm in the Caribbean at present and over the last month or so I've had the opportunity to speak on two separate occasions with several people who participated in the 1500 this year. I was told two things that I don't think have been mentioned in the thread thusfar.

First, apparently (and I say apparently because my information is at least second hand, and perhaps third or fourth...), at least some of the crew of Rule 62 were very sea sick for several days before the grounding. In addition, at least one of the crew was suffering significant emotional distress such that the two medical doctors who were at sea with the fleet and who were in communication with Rule 62 were (as described to me) very concerned with the emotional state of one crew member. (Note: I did not speak with the MDs, so this information may be second/third/fourth hand from people who did speak with them after the rally).

If true, the above would indicate that the skipper had more to deal with than your average case of "mal de mer". If you've ever been on a boat offshore when someone is freaking out (and I have), you'll know that it's a serious, perhaps life threatening, situation in itself. The divert to the Bahamas may have been more than a case of a tired crew seeking comfort, but rather the most expeditious means of dealing with a severly stressed, emotionally distressed crew member.

Second, I have it from two different sources in separate conversations that the evening Rule 62 went aground that one of the women aboard the boat (no one knows which one) reported to the evening radio net words to the effect that "We've arrived" or "We're here". Obviously, the report was premature and perhaps what the radio operator intended to convey was that the boat had arrived off the coast, and perhaps was about to enter the cut. That said, both the people I spoke with intrepreted the report from Rule 62 as meaning that they had safely arrived in the Bahamas. This addresses the concerns that some have expressed regarding the responsibility, if any, the rally organizers may have had in this affair. Techinally, Rule 62 left the rally several days before they went aground when they announced that they were dropping out and heading for the Bahamas. I was told that the rally staff at sea encouraged them to continue on, but that it was their decision to make. The fact that Rule 62 continued to be followed on the radio net after they dropped out, and that they made a report which multiple sources intrepreted as meaning they had safely arrived, I think pretty much absolves the rally organizers from any responsibility for what happened.

On a happier note, I'm looking forward next week to the visit of our august SN contributor, Bene505. Brad and his wife are coming down for a few days in the sun and you can rest assured that we will not be running any reef cuts at night. I can absolutely guarantee that at sunset each night we will have the hook in the sand, a rum drink in hand, and eyes peeled for a green flash.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #576  
Old 03-29-2011
LandLocked66c's Avatar
Sunsets and Warm Beer....
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Bottom of a Pint Glass...
Posts: 2,111
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
LandLocked66c is on a distinguished road
Crazy stuff!

So who else has been at sea with someone going crazy? How do you console/control them?
__________________
1971 23' Oday Pop Top
S/V Frida

You can't steer a boat that isn't moving? Just like a life - P. Lutus

Last edited by LandLocked66c; 03-29-2011 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #577  
Old 03-29-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 92
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
xxuxx is on a distinguished road
Dealing with a crew ....losing it emotionally at sea

I try and calm them down using logic, weatherfaxes and reminding them what they signed: a crew agreement. My agreement states that they would absorb all costs related to a major passage detour. This would include, but not only limited to, marina costs, food, fuel, captains time $400/day etc etc. Somehow they find a way of coping until we reach our original destination.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #578  
Old 03-29-2011
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,143
Thanks: 85
Thanked 78 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
I'm in the Caribbean at present and over the last month or so I've had the opportunity to speak on two separate occasions with several people who participated in the 1500 this year. I was told two things that I don't think have been mentioned in the thread thusfar.

First, apparently (and I say apparently because my information is at least second hand, and perhaps third or fourth...), at least some of the crew of Rule 62 were very sea sick for several days before the grounding. In addition, at least one of the crew was suffering significant emotional distress such that the two medical doctors who were at sea with the fleet and who were in communication with Rule 62 were (as described to me) very concerned with the emotional state of one crew member. (Note: I did not speak with the MDs, so this information may be second/third/fourth hand from people who did speak with them after the rally).

If true, the above would indicate that the skipper had more to deal with than your average case of "mal de mer". If you've ever been on a boat offshore when someone is freaking out (and I have), you'll know that it's a serious, perhaps life threatening, situation in itself. The divert to the Bahamas may have been more than a case of a tired crew seeking comfort, but rather the most expeditious means of dealing with a severly stressed, emotionally distressed crew member.

Second, I have it from two different sources in separate conversations that the evening Rule 62 went aground that one of the women aboard the boat (no one knows which one) reported to the evening radio net words to the effect that "We've arrived" or "We're here". Obviously, the report was premature and perhaps what the radio operator intended to convey was that the boat had arrived off the coast, and perhaps was about to enter the cut. That said, both the people I spoke with intrepreted the report from Rule 62 as meaning that they had safely arrived in the Bahamas. This addresses the concerns that some have expressed regarding the responsibility, if any, the rally organizers may have had in this affair. Techinally, Rule 62 left the rally several days before they went aground when they announced that they were dropping out and heading for the Bahamas. I was told that the rally staff at sea encouraged them to continue on, but that it was their decision to make. The fact that Rule 62 continued to be followed on the radio net after they dropped out, and that they made a report which multiple sources intrepreted as meaning they had safely arrived, I think pretty much absolves the rally organizers from any responsibility for what happened.

On a happier note, I'm looking forward next week to the visit of our august SN contributor, Bene505. Brad and his wife are coming down for a few days in the sun and you can rest assured that we will not be running any reef cuts at night. I can absolutely guarantee that at sunset each night we will have the hook in the sand, a rum drink in hand, and eyes peeled for a green flash.
Wow - thanks for the update BR. This explains a lot - even if it's second hand info.

Enjoy the rum - and get some video of that green flash will you?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #579  
Old 04-24-2011
Leocat66's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Slidell, LA. USA
Posts: 165
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Leocat66 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Get real. In no way do I beleive he should explain that here. The only person/ entity he is responsible to is any legal entity investigating this or his own maker. If he has any type of conscience he is distraught overe the possible contributions he made willingly or not to the death of one of his crew. He will have to live with that himself.

Leocat66 he has no obligation to you, me or other sailors in this matter. I do not want to hear your ameteur criticisms or Monday morning quarterbacking of what happened.

This thread has had many knowlegeable contributors which has helped myself and others in thinking of what to do to prevent this situation/ scenario and how to handle it if we got into a similar fix. You are not one of them and your rant would serve as no learning experience to myself.

Dave
Dave, you must be related to the Captain in question. You are right, he has absolutely no obligation to explain his actions or lack thereof to anyone here or on any forum. That said, explaining your actions, which had the ultimate result would be that which is called character, which is apparently sadly lacking with Captain Ross. Sadly, his silence, has produced this Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Many have gone before him, and have caused the death or injury of others and have had the character to explain what happened so that others could be cautioned.

I for one would like to hear Captain Ross give his account. He may be a man who did all in his power, with his experience, to make the best decisions under the circumstances. Instead of that we are left to assume the worst about him. As a result of his silence he will be tried here and every place else, and will be judged guilty by most.

You are very rude to suggest that my or anyone else's opinion is amateur and that you alone are intelligent enough to have valid professional questions or statements or opinions on this issue.

Last edited by Leocat66; 04-24-2011 at 04:24 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #580  
Old 04-24-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 2,244
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
sck5 is on a distinguished road
Sounds like YOU tried him and found him guilty. As for me, I think what you wrote is silliness.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rule of thumb for Jib sheet jbrockpiano Gear & Maintenance 5 05-27-2008 08:47 AM
Rule Bilge switches DWrate Gear & Maintenance 6 08-15-2007 12:42 AM
Rule Question please d212 Racing 5 02-03-2007 09:59 AM
The Rule of 60 John Rousmaniere Her Sailnet Articles 0 08-08-2004 08:00 PM
New Handicap Rule paulk Racing 2 01-17-2003 02:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:16 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.