Do roller-furling cruisers need a storm jib? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 62 Old 11-22-2010
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A GaleSail is a good option if you don't want to go through the work that installing a proper inner forestay or solent stay for a storm jib and don't want to have to remove the genoa from the roller furling unit.

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post #12 of 62 Old 11-22-2010 Thread Starter
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A gale sail would be good. I actually had one but it was too small and didn't fit over the furled headsail. Ought to get another (bigger) on I suppose.

I was thinking that in a pinch I could use my anchor/riding sail. It is made with very heavy material. It would be very flat, but would allow me to pull the main in and sail upwind (I think) without losing rudder authority.

I figure I could tie it to several places up front, either the cleat on top of the windlass, the same attachment point as the roller furler, or the top of the anchor roller. The windlass is farthest back so that would be my first priority.

Any thoughts on this?

Regards,
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post #13 of 62 Old 11-23-2010
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Brad--

Unless your riding sail has a wire luff, I don't think you should use it as a storm jib. It would be very difficult to tension it properly and get it to sheet in as flat as you'd want.

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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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post #14 of 62 Old 11-23-2010
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A Gale Sail is one of those ideas that look good on paper but is truly grim in real life. Until you (wet) have dragged the Gale Sail (wet) forward and hooked the Gale Sail (wet) over the furled foresail (wet) and tried to communicate with the person (wet) at the mast hauling on the spare (you do have a spare?) jib halyard to pull the Gail Sail luff (wet) over the furled jib (did I mention wet?) you will have no idea how bad an idea it really is.

I've been there and done that, and had to wash the t-shirt twice to get all the salt out. *grin*

We all have to make our own choices. Here are mine:

When heading offshore I pull my light #2 (135) off the furler and replace it with a heavy #3 (100). I give up a little speed in light air in exchange for more flexibility as winds build. I also have a hank-on staysail that runs on a removable inner forestay. Offshore I hank on the bagged staysail and run the sheets to the cockpit. On my boat, I can carry the 100 jib through three reefs in the main. Beyond that (35 knots and rising) I'll roll in the 100 to about 80 before rolling it all the way in and switching to the staysail -- with everything rigged I only have to pull the bag (separately lashed to the deck) and trip the sail holddown to raise the staysail. It's a one person job, and no humping sail over the decks in poor conditions.

Not everyone has or wants a removable inner forestay. In that circumstance I personally would rather drop the furling sail off the foil and tie it down to replace it with a storm jib. Generally that would take two or three people with an autopilot or three to four without an a/p. I'd put money on being able to do it faster and more safely than a Gail Sail.

You pays your money and you makes your choice. *grin*
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post #15 of 62 Old 11-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
A Gale Sail is one of those ideas that look good on paper but is truly grim in real life. Until you (wet) have dragged the Gale Sail (wet) forward and hooked the Gale Sail (wet) over the furled foresail (wet) and tried to communicate with the person (wet) at the mast hauling on the spare (you do have a spare?) jib halyard to pull the Gail Sail luff (wet) over the furled jib (did I mention wet?) you will have no idea how bad an idea it really is.

...*
I did not know what the “Gale sail” was before looking at the web. In Europe we use the Storm-Bag and after looking at both videos, it’s clear that the Storm-Bag is a lot easier to deploy. Almost all is made from the cockpit.

I had one and even if I never need it I have tried (for practice) to deploy the sail (alone) with winds over 30K. No problem at all, except getting wet form the water in the bow, but I only needed to be there for about 1 minute. The rest is made from the cockpit.

You guys should take a look at it. It seems a better system to me.

YouTube - Storm Bag

YouTube - ATN Gale Sail - Storm Jib

Regards

Paulo
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post #16 of 62 Old 11-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
A Gale Sail is one of those ideas that look good on paper but is truly grim in real life. Until you (wet) have dragged the Gale Sail (wet) forward and hooked the Gale Sail (wet) over the furled foresail (wet) and tried to communicate with the person (wet) at the mast hauling on the spare (you do have a spare?) jib halyard to pull the Gail Sail luff (wet) over the furled jib (did I mention wet?) you will have no idea how bad an idea it really is.

I've been there and done that, and had to wash the t-shirt twice to get all the salt out. *grin*

We all have to make our own choices. Here are mine:

When heading offshore I pull my light #2 (135) off the furler and replace it with a heavy #3 (100). I give up a little speed in light air in exchange for more flexibility as winds build. I also have a hank-on staysail that runs on a removable inner forestay. Offshore I hank on the bagged staysail and run the sheets to the cockpit. On my boat, I can carry the 100 jib through three reefs in the main. Beyond that (35 knots and rising) I'll roll in the 100 to about 80 before rolling it all the way in and switching to the staysail -- with everything rigged I only have to pull the bag (separately lashed to the deck) and trip the sail holddown to raise the staysail. It's a one person job, and no humping sail over the decks in poor conditions.

Not everyone has or wants a removable inner forestay. In that circumstance I personally would rather drop the furling sail off the foil and tie it down to replace it with a storm jib. Generally that would take two or three people with an autopilot or three to four without an a/p. I'd put money on being able to do it faster and more safely than a Gail Sail.

You pays your money and you makes your choice. *grin*
I have always been suspicious of the gale sail. I admit I have no personal knowledge of it. It just seemed to be etremely difficult to raise over another sail. I will tupe it again. The cutter rig is a great rig for cruising........i2f
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20 MPH ain't fast unless, you do it in a 1000sq 3/2 house on 10foot waves
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post #17 of 62 Old 11-24-2010
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I posted something like this a long while ago so apologies for the repeat.

I have a storm jib folded in a bag and ready to spill. The bag has a velcro opening and is lashed to the rail at the bow. If it is needed, the genny is furled and the storm jib halyard is used. The sail , in its bag is ready with its halyard and oversized sheets and a downhaul. It has an inner braid inside its luff, instead of a wire luff.

Its foot is just behind the genoa so is set quite well forward.


This works by far and is much safer than that gale sail idea. What I dont like about what I saw in the video is that is disables the use of the genny, requires someone to set halyards and sheets from scratch in lumpy conditions and is a bit of a gimmick. It could be a problem to remove.

I have had my storm jib out in a breeze much stronger than the gale sail youtube guys, but not used as of yet in necessity.


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post #18 of 62 Old 11-24-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
A Gale Sail is one of those ideas that look good on paper but is truly grim in real life. Until you (wet) have dragged the Gale Sail (wet) forward and hooked the Gale Sail (wet) over the furled foresail (wet) and tried to communicate with the person (wet) at the mast hauling on the spare (you do have a spare?) jib halyard to pull the Gail Sail luff (wet) over the furled jib (did I mention wet?) you will have no idea how bad an idea it really is.

I've been there and done that, and had to wash the t-shirt twice to get all the salt out. *grin*

We all have to make our own choices. Here are mine:

When heading offshore I pull my light #2 (135) off the furler and replace it with a heavy #3 (100). I give up a little speed in light air in exchange for more flexibility as winds build. I also have a hank-on staysail that runs on a removable inner forestay. Offshore I hank on the bagged staysail and run the sheets to the cockpit. On my boat, I can carry the 100 jib through three reefs in the main. Beyond that (35 knots and rising) I'll roll in the 100 to about 80 before rolling it all the way in and switching to the staysail -- with everything rigged I only have to pull the bag (separately lashed to the deck) and trip the sail holddown to raise the staysail. It's a one person job, and no humping sail over the decks in poor conditions.

Not everyone has or wants a removable inner forestay. In that circumstance I personally would rather drop the furling sail off the foil and tie it down to replace it with a storm jib. Generally that would take two or three people with an autopilot or three to four without an a/p. I'd put money on being able to do it faster and more safely than a Gail Sail.

You pays your money and you makes your choice. *grin*
I too have used a Gale Sail and I too dislike it. Good in theory not in the real world. Sail shape is tough and on/off when you really need it, c'mon who puts one on before they need it when miles off shore, it is also tedious to trim.

Dropping a furled head sail in rough conditions is worse and wetter but a true storm jib results in a sail that will actually perform better and if you have miles to put under you then this is a better performing option.

I find most vessels do not have the jib tracks located properly to use a strom jib (less than 100%) and tune it well. No big surprise there though as builders don't generally build for the less than 2% of the time when you might need it. I rig a barber and forward jib snatch blocks for the storm jib before setting off when rough weather might be predicted. My storm jib is pretty small, perhaps a 35-40% or so, but when it gets nasty it works well and the boat balances great. I can also take a few turns of the furler without losing much shape making it even smaller if needed. Beyond that bare poles and a few sq feet of the clew end will sail the boat ok off the wind...

In one nasty storm we bagged the 135% and cross lashed it to the cockpit floor rather than forcing a sopping wet sail down the hatch into a pristine clean and dry masters cabin (delivery). This had a slight added benefit that I have never heard discussed. It reduced the cockpit volume slightly so that when we got pooped for the second or third time it seemed to drain faster. It also provided for a softer landing when the boat pitched and we lost footing in the cockpit. I have not repeated this because most vessels don't have pad eyes on the cockpit floor like that boat did but it was a nice feature whether we used it properly or not. Our own boat has a cavernous sail locker so the wet sails just go in there.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


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Last edited by Maine Sail; 11-24-2010 at 06:43 AM.
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post #19 of 62 Old 11-24-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
..
I have a storm jib folded in a bag and ready to spill. The bag has a velcro opening and is lashed to the rail at the bow. ....

This works by far and is much safer than that gale sail idea. What I dont like about what I saw in the video is that is disables the use of the genny, requires someone to set halyards and sheets from scratch in lumpy conditions and is a bit of a gimmick. It could be a problem to remove.

.....
Yes, it is much easier. The Storm Bag is mounted over the genoa and it is a double sail that stands over and on each side of the Genoa. About the halyard you just have to open the block on the cockpint, at the mast you pick the Geenaker or Spinnaker halyard and clip it to the right spot in the bag (the bag stays attached to the genoa bottom clip). Then you have only to bring the sheets back, passing them inside the right spot. You can do this quite easily and in two or three minutes. Then you deploy the sail from the cockpit (halyard up and sheet in).

You only have to remove it when the weather settles, and that is quite easy, since it is a small sail. you just have to pass a sheet around the genoa, unclip it (on the bottom and on the Halyard) and pull it from the cockpit. To mount and fold correctly the sail in the bag it is another story, but you can do that in better weather

It is much easier than to set a removable inner stay and rig the sail, but you will not have a not so good sail shape.

"When the Storm-Bag was tested it was found quite easy to put into position and to hoist, and the double sail system sets well, so will be efficient in extreme conditions."

Peter Bruce
Adlard Coles' Heavy Weather Sailing


Storm Bag

Regards

Paulo
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post #20 of 62 Old 11-24-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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...I rig a barber and forward jib snatch blocks for the storm jib before setting off when rough weather might be predicted.
Maine,

Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Regards,
Brad

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