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  #21  
Old 11-24-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It is much easier than to set a removable inner stay and rig the sail, but you will not have a not so good sail shape.
It's quite easy to set the removable inner forestay, hank on the staysail, and run the sheets at the dock before heading offshore. *grin* The staysail just sits in its bag forward, ready when I need it.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
It's quite easy to set the removable inner forestay, hank on the staysail, and run the sheets at the dock before heading offshore. *grin* The staysail just sits in its bag forward, ready when I need it.
That's not the point. If you have it in place when you don't need it is not a removable staysail. For the ones that like big genoas (like me) a fixed inner forestay is a drag, specially if you sail solo.

I will not make a passage if I know that I will need a storm sail, so I would sail out with a decent weather report and with the storm sail on the bag, the big genoa free from the inner stay. If on passage things turn out wrong and I get really bad weather, I will have to mount the inner forestay and hank the staysail in the sea, with 35k of wind or more. What I am saying is that it in those conditions it is easier to deploy the storm bag than to mount the inner frontstay and rig the storm sail, especially if you are alone.

But I don't like easy things and I would prefer to sail better with a storm sail than to sail with a less suitable stormbag sail, even if the difference is not that much. But I guess that many would trade the superior performance for an easier job on the front deck, way from the sheltered cockpit

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-24-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2011
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Storm Bag Exprience

Hi, I'd like to share my little experience with a Storm Bag sail.
I bougth a 6 square meter storm bag as a storm sail and after a few trials on how to deploy and best place to run sheet lines (in between lower shoruds for my Bavaria 36) I have kept it on board.
There are two good things about storm bag 1) Easy to deploy with limited activity at the bow 2) Performs very well at all angles, difficult to believe as it wraps around a furled genoa.
I used it twice. One time on a sailing afternoon for a few hours with 40 to 50 knots, not forecasted and deploing the storm bag made things very easy to deal with (instead of no sails or useless and dangerous partially rolled genoa). Second time on a passage Sardinia to Menorca with 25 knots true Northerly when during the night wind raised to 30 knots - deploing the storm bag was a bit early but not so as a safety action. It was not easy to go and be at the bow for the limited time and actions required to set the storm bag in place, big waves were not just due to the wind at location but 35+ knots were blowing above our route. With that experience I would not consider a good option any storm sail which could be more difficult to deploy than a storm bag. In am quite happy to know that the storm bag pack is there for when I need it. I think for a cruiser and max 250 miles passages a storm bag is OK, I am also considering to add a third reef for the main, as a necessary item, and believe that is how far I will go for my needs.
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavaria36 View Post
... With that experience I would not consider a good option any storm sail which could be more difficult to deploy than a storm bag. In am quite happy to know that the storm bag pack is there for when I need it. I think for a cruiser and max 250 miles passages a storm bag is OK, I am also considering to add a third reef for the main, as a necessary item, and believe that is how far I will go for my needs.
Hi! and welcome to Sailnet

I agree with you. I had, like you, a 36 Bavaria for 7 years and I had also a storm bag. I agree with what you say and as I had in mine a small 3th reef on the main I can tell you that it is a big improvement in heavy weather. Probably because I had it I never needed the storm bag. I used the third reef a lot, practically always I had more than 30K of apparent wind. The boat is much more balanced (than only with a front sail) and much faster.

Mount it with two extra blocks, one in each side of the cockpit and you can have full control of it from the cockpit

Regards

Paulo
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2011
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Re: Storm Bag Sail:

The video showed deploying the sail. However, it does not show restowing it in the two part bag, so that it will be ready to redeploy. After you've used it and then pulled it down, how difficult is it to repack it on board the boat in high wind/wave conditions?
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2011
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Our 35' sloop came with an extra set of removable stays. It consisted of Navtec rod attached at the second set of spreaders using T-ball fittings. The removable inner forestay lined up with the spinnaker pole lift halyard (to double as a story staysail halyard). This inner forestay connected to a padeye on deck that was property backed up by a short guy belowdeck that transferred loads to a bulkhead.

There were also 2 running backstays that we temporarily taped to the permanent side stays--which kept them out of the way, but ready to go, without needing to go aloft when we were offshore.

One of our concerns is about removing or securing the 140 genoa if things get nasty. At least the storm jib can go up quickly on the inner forestay. Rigging the trysail is another matter, since our main has full length battens and it would be time-consuming and awkward to take the main off altogether. Thankfully, we never got to that point.

All that said, I'm more comfortable with deep reefing the main than deep reefing a genoa for all the known reasons. If you can at least get a storm jib up, you would have more control.

My suggestion is to look at rigging an inner forestay if you can accommodate it and buying a storm jib. If you are only going 600 nm or so, you ought to be able to manage your schedule to avoid the really nasty conditions.
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Old 03-20-2011
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This is an old thread so not an answer for Brad as I guess he has worked out the way he wants to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post
1) . Is a storm jib necessary?
No. You can't be on the fordeck stuffing around with sails in 40+ knots with a shorthanded crew of retired folks. So roll the damn thing up to a lil bit and ride out the blow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post

2) If so, how do you deploy it? Unless everyone is using the ATN storm jib that fastens over the rolled-up jib,
Regards,
Brad
As I said above the fordeck is a place I don't need to be
Sailing in the right season storms will be more like squalls and short lived.
Out of season of the Southern Ocean etc is different. And I'm not doing neither
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Re: Storm Bag Sail:

The video showed deploying the sail. However, it does not show restowing it in the two part bag, so that it will be ready to redeploy. After you've used it and then pulled it down, how difficult is it to repack it on board the boat in high wind/wave conditions?
A Storm Bag is easy to deploy but it is a lot more difficult to restow it in the bag. But that should not be a problem since you are going only to take it down and store it when the conditions are not bad anymore. Besides you have to go to the bow, even if for a short time, to deploy it but for restowing you can make it on the cockpit (it is not a big sail).

Regards

Paulo
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
...

No. You can't be on the fordeck stuffing around with sails in 40+ knots with a shorthanded crew of retired folks. So roll the damn thing up to a lil bit and ride out the blow.
....
As I said above the fordeck is a place I don't need to be
Sailing in the right season storms will be more like squalls and short lived.
Out of season of the Southern Ocean etc is different. And I'm not doing neither
Then, if something goes wrong (several things can) the full genoa is deployed and you are lucky if the mast stays in one piece.

Even if all things go right it is dangerous and you are ruining your genoa that is not made to take that strain and will lose shape.

Regards

Paulo
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2011
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I've used my 100% jib furled down to a tab in combination with a single reefed main on several occasions when the winds kicked at 25 to 30K in Chesapeake Bay. I was aboard my Catalina 27, and at the time I worried about the overall pressure being applied to the standing rigging--even when fairly tight on the wind. When the winds hit 40 I lowered the main, left that tiny tab of jib out and sailed for the protection of the nearest cove, dropped the hook and spent the next two days waiting for the weather to improve. I often wonder what I would have done if I had been halfway to Bermuda when those conditions arise. I suspect nothing different would have been done in reference to the sail configuration, but the trip to Bermuda may have been long and arduous at best.

For the folks that lost their roller furling lines, especially in the middle of the night, I inspect my furling line every time it is deployed. I look for chaffing and wear, and every two years it is replaced. Additionally, the Alado roller furling drum, which is the one I use, is constructed in such a way to prevent chaffing of the furling control line. Therefore, even though I replace the line to be on the safe side, from all outward appearances the line is still in perfect condition. Just something to consider.

Great topic,

Gary
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