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  #31  
Old 03-20-2011
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28 years ago I had a Hunter 27 that I converted to a roller reefing 150% genoa. I had the old 110 jib cut into a staysail, and installed a padeye and removable stay in the deck. It was reinforced with a turnbuckle below deck tied into the hull. I took the boat out in the ocean on a day when it was blowing maybe 15 to 18 knots. Using the roller furling genoa I could couldn't find any combination that would allow me to sail upwind! We tacked back and forth for 1/2 hour and gained but a few feet. I then furled the genoa and set the staysail, and we took off for our destination 20 miles away. I was very surprised that it made so much difference!

The guy on the dock next to me with a Hunter 25 had something I've never seen before, reefable hank on jib. It had a second clew ring above the standard one, and ties to hold the extra cloth. I sailed with him one day when it was blowing a a steady 25 mph and it worked really well.

Gary H. Lucas
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hi! and welcome to Sailnet

I agree with you. I had, like you, a 36 Bavaria for 7 years and I had also a storm bag. I agree with what you say and as I had in mine a small 3th reef on the main I can tell you that it is a big improvement in heavy weather. Probably because I had it I never needed the storm bag. I used the third reef a lot, practically always I had more than 30K of apparent wind. The boat is much more balanced (than only with a front sail) and much faster.

Mount it with two extra blocks, one in each side of the cockpit and you can have full control of it from the cockpit

Regards

Paulo
Hi, this is good to know, and from a bav 36 owner perspective. By the way my boat has just entered its 8th year and doing well.

I was going to enquiry with sailmaker and rigger for a 3rd single line reef, similarly to reef 1 and 2. From what you say about the two extra blocks you did something different than a single line reef, any more details?

Regards,

Alberto
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2011
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Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Re: Storm Bag Sail:

The video showed deploying the sail. However, it does not show restowing it in the two part bag, so that it will be ready to redeploy. After you've used it and then pulled it down, how difficult is it to repack it on board the boat in high wind/wave conditions?
Repacking the storm bag is pretty easy on a quay. I have never tried to repack on board. I think it would be not practical (speaking for myself not possible) to repack on board in high wind/wave conditions but it would be possible in fair conditions. In the two occasions I used the storm bag I did not need to repack on board as I approached shelter. The storm bag sail is small, easy to lower, I have not tried yet but I think it is possible, instead of repacking it, to fasten it at the bow pulpit and lines in such a way to allow using the genoa and if needed to re-deploy. In the picture the storm bag after usage fastened down, before removing and repacking.

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  #34  
Old 03-20-2011
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Brad, I don't think anyone mentioned this, but even if your furling sail and gear were strong enough to be used as a storm sail, you'd probably damage the sail (blow out the shape) from using it that way.

A furler may be one size fits all, but that still ignores the question that really, you may need a light 150 in light winds, a heavier 110 to boom along in 20 knots and hold shape, and by the time you get to 30+ knots...you need storm cloth and the storm sail anyway, the cloth that was good for a 130 is just going to be all stretched out in heavy winds.

So getting the storm sail also will prolong the life of your roller sail.
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  #35  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavaria36 View Post
Hi, this is good to know, and from a bav 36 owner perspective. By the way my boat has just entered its 8th year and doing well.

I was going to enquiry with sailmaker and rigger for a 3rd single line reef, similarly to reef 1 and 2. From what you say about the two extra blocks you did something different than a single line reef, any more details?

Regards,

Alberto
Hi Alberto,

I was sailing those waters two years ago. I have also made that passage between Minorca and Sardinia where strong winds are expected,. Actually it was for doing that I bought the sail-bag

Yes I have catched strong winds (25/30K) but I didn't need the storm bag instead had a fantastic downwind ride averaging about 7.5K and staying many hours over 9K with surfs on two digit speeds. Great sailing 24 hours (a bit less) that I shared with my 15 year old son

That boat looks like my old one A good looking boat in my opinion, but I am hardly impartial about that .

Curiously my boat was sold to an Italian. It is on a marina near Piombino and if you are nearer you can have a look how it was done.

You cannot have another single reef on that set up. The boom mechanism does not allow that. That's why all new boats come only with two reefs. That's why you have to have two blocks and two lines.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-20-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryHLucas View Post
....

The guy on the dock next to me with a Hunter 25 had something I've never seen before, reefable hank on jib. It had a second clew ring above the standard one, and ties to hold the extra cloth. I sailed with him one day when it was blowing a a steady 25 mph and it worked really well.

Gary H. Lucas
Gary,
That set up is an old one I had it on my first boat, a 80 year's old traditional boat

Funny thing is that now some racing boats are using it again, so I guess sailmakers will know again how to make them properly. They even do that to gennakers and they use a zip to put in a kind of bag all the sail that was taken out with the reef.

They are using it on the 40 class racing boats. They have a restricted number of sails to carry on a Transat so they use reefs on the front sails to provide more flexibility and versatility

Regards

Paulo
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Then, if something goes wrong (several things can) the full genoa is deployed and you are lucky if the mast stays in one piece.

Paulo


Hi Paulo,

I don't think its too likely in the real world. If it does unfurl then you can drop it. It its a catestrophic failure you can slice it from the foot and let nature do its work. That will take 10 seconds to cut and nautre about 10 seconds to complete


Re: Sardinia/Legurian Sea/Tyrrhenian Seas: That area is a bit nutso! Capri to Sainta Margareta saw the lot from water spouts forming to immense thunderstorms with 60 knots wind, and every night lightening from every quarter.

Wanna reef fast there.

I thought it was meant to be some nice docile area with Itanlians driving speedboats with more chain (gold) around their necks than on the anchor.


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Old 03-24-2011
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Ive been sailing for most of my life, mostly coastal, and some short offshore hauls. My rule of thumb is detachable forestay and storm jim are the minimum. Sea anchors should be in the inventory also. Getting caught without the right equipment can mean more than just broken gear. Lives are often lost because of not thinking worst case scenarios before heading offshore.
My friends who went on my adventures used to rib me about all the equipment I carried, saying what are you planning for, a sinking? And I'd say exactly....
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Reefing

Reefing down is an act undertaken explicitly by the lights of the skipper. Some will deep-reef when 25 knots arrives. Others at 40. There are no rules other than the skipper and crews physical and emotional comfort.

Having said that an averagely well designed boat can hold full-sail in 25Knots, gutsing 30/25, when a crew is available for good trimming through the gusts. Short-handed, or a skipper with an inexperienced crew would probably do well to reef earlier.

Up to around 30/35 knots gusting, if the skipper is competent and knows his boat, then roller reefing 'is' an option. But remember, your full headsail is a light-weight sail designed for modest conditions.

Further, if your boat is a bit tender then as you roller-reef you step the centre of effort higher and higher, which can increase heel angle.

In truth, if you have roller reefing on a 120/130% headsail it would be better to buy a much smaller, much heavier haedsail with a wire luff, and fit a snap ring into your foredeck and use your spinnaker halyard as the hoist.

Make sure you buy such a sail where the clew is in the same line of attack as your main headsail's. That way you can simply unclip the big one and clip on the small. Furthermore, in doing this, the cenre of effort is kept as low as possible.

Hope that hemps.
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  #40  
Old 03-25-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
.

Having said that an averagely well designed boat can hold full-sail in 25Knots, gutsing 30/25, when a crew is available for good trimming through the gusts. Short-handed, or a skipper with an inexperienced crew would probably do well to reef earlier.
That depends a lot on the type of boat and the size of the head sail. You are probably talking about an old boat or an heavy/medium displacement boat. Modern boats, depending on the design normally will have to take the first reef sooner, between 18/22K wind and the second between 25/30K. Normally with automatic reefs boats will not have a third reef but if you mount one it will be used over 35/40K wind, this off course assuming going upwind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
.
Up to around 30/35 knots gusting, if the skipper is competent and knows his boat, then roller reefing 'is' an option. But remember, your full headsail is a light-weight sail designed for modest conditions.

Further, if your boat is a bit tender then as you roller-reef you step the centre of effort higher and higher, which can increase heel angle.

How you reef your boat, meaning the order when to roll the head sail or put a reef on the main and the balance between the two depends much on type of boat and the way it is rigged (big head sail, relatively small main or big main and smaller head sail). In some boats you can go faster having almost the full genoa with a reef on the main others will work better with a reefed genoa and full main and others, with a small head sail, can have it with a lot of wind and you just have to reef the main.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
.

In truth, if you have roller reefing on a 120/130% headsail it would be better to buy a much smaller, much heavier haedsail with a wire luff, and fit a snap ring into your foredeck and use your spinnaker halyard as the hoist.

Make sure you buy such a sail where the clew is in the same line of attack as your main headsail's. That way you can simply unclip the big one and clip on the small. Furthermore, in doing this, the cenre of effort is kept as low as possible.
Yes I agree but what you are talking about is practically the same thing has having a removable stay sail. But guys take care, it is not just enough to fit a snap ring on the foredeck. The forces that are going to be made there are huge. You have to reinforce all the area and have a way of transmitting those efforts to the structure of the boat. It is better if it is provided by the manufacturer or made by someone that has the experience and knoweledge to do that

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-25-2011 at 05:43 AM.
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