Wauquiez is going down, Dufour and Grand Soleil in trouble.

[PCP]

Wauquiez is probably going to disappear unless someone would be interested in buying the company and invest a lot and that seems improbable.

Dufour and Grand Soleil are also in trouble, but it seems that Bavaria is going to buy both companies (that are linked).

This, as the buying of Dehler and Moody by Hanse (or Jeanneau by Beneteau) seems to indicate that medium sized companies just cannot compete in price with big companies nor they have the huge resources needed to modernize their factories and the building procedures to make comparable priced boats.

That's a bad notice in what regards Wauquiez, a brand with a great record in boating, but not so bad in what regards Dufour and Grand Soleil.

Perhaps, under the supervision of Bavaria we are going to have, in the near future, Dufour and mainly Grand Soliel boats at a more affordable price, with the same quality. Both are top performers in what regards quality and design in their class, but also the more expensive...it seems, too expensive.

And what about Tartan? Nobody heard nothing about Hunter buying it? It would make sense.

Regards

Paulo

[nemier]

So thats two large German producers now.
Hanse & Bavaria. Interesting...

[blt2ski]

Wauquiez used to be a part of Group Beneteau until IIRC 3-5 yrs ago, then it was sold off. Either it did not meet the needs of GB, or it was failing back then, and GB did not want to invest. OR< it is just showing what and how hard the global recession/depression is hitting companies that are in the recreation biz.

Not sure Tartan would be bought be either Hunter or Catalina locally. Europe has a way of helping larger companies buy smaller ones that employ a lot of folks, that does not happen here in the states, The attitude seems to be, let them fall. Still a common feeling among folk in regards to GM or Dodge, ie let the close! the problem is, in these two companies favor or lack of, millions of job loss's. Better to give them loans, government is making money and is being paid back, jobs kept, everyone wins. The latter is not an attitude to do in the US.

Marty

[Faster]

I guess we can only hope that the customer comes out the winner in a more efficient consolidation of builders and offerings.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by blt2ski

Wauquiez used to be a part of Group Beneteau until IIRC 3-5 yrs ago, then it was sold off. Either it did not meet the needs of GB, or it was failing back then, and GB did not want to invest. OR< it is just showing what and how hard the global recession/depression is hitting companies that are in the recreation biz.

...
Marty

Wauquiez was to Benetau the top quality product in the game. Wauquiez started to get trouble to sell the Centurion range and stayed only with the top DS range, but that one had also trouble selling and the Jeanneau take that market away from them. The only boat that is interesting in the wauquiez range is the Opium, but it came too late and was in conflit with the First range, so they let it go.

Marty, it makes sense for a bigger boat company to buy another if that one has a quality range that the first one doesn't have. That way they get another slice of the market. That's why I have said it would make sense for Hunter to buy Tartan, providing the price is right. That way Hunter would have a prestigious top quality line and also a line of faster boats that are pointing to a completely different market.

If Hunter would want to have a go at that market, even if it could produce a great and luxurious fast boat, that boat would not sell: the buyers of that segment would not buy a Hunter...just because it is a Hunter = big production inexpensive boat, no matter what .

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Faster

I guess we can only hope that the customer comes out the winner in a more efficient consolidation of builders and offerings.

That had already happened in European car industry. They are all interconnected forming big groups. The chassis and engines of different brands are the same (equal to all the cars of the same group and same segment).

Only this way they can compete in price.

Regards

Paulo

[blt2ski]

Paulo,

SOme of what you are saying makes a lot of sense, No different than the local Jeanneau dealer took on Hunter, when the Bene dealer let that franchise go. A lower cost boat along with the Tartan/C&C line they have too. Hunter I am sure has the assets to buy Tartan. The issue I see is Jacket, ie he seems to be getting himself to go with the company when it has been purchased. THAT part alone may be what keeps some folks from investing/buying the brand ie C&C and Tartan. WHere as, A company like Hunter, should have staff on hand to design boats to the Tartan legacy, but would be better off outsourcing the design to keep up the legacy if you will.

No different to a degree than GM buying the different brands that they did, or GB in France for that matter. Not sure that Tartan has a recent name legacy to want to purchase. That is the issue I see frankly. Wauquiez would be the better brand or Dufour or GS IMHO. As those have better names and recognition at "this" moment in time.

marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by nemier

So thats two large German producers now.
Hanse & Bavaria. Interesting...

You are getting it right . France is the biggest world boat manufacturer, with 923 506, but Germany is the nº1 in exporting boats, with 750 000 boats.

France boat builders (5000) make 23 500 boats each year. Look at the number of boat builders. They are really enthusiastic about boats. Different boats for all tastes and for all sailors

Germany is a different story. All their boats are made "only" by 412 boatbuilders.

Regards

Paulo

[T37Chef]

Here is some info on Tartans & C&C new owners
http://www.tartanyachts.com/images/c...ated_92010.pdf

[PCP]

I hope they succeed, but they seem amateurs to me.

Boat building is a hard business and it is necessary to look at it from a business perspective. I remember that some months back Bavaria went to BMW to get their production manager. The guy don't know nothing about boats, but knows a lot about production, cost reduction, robotic and effectiveness of work hours.

There are a lot of other guys that know about boats in Bavaria. They need this one for maximizing scale production and to apply to the boat industry modern robotics and other advanced production methods that are used on the car industry.

I believe that Tartan will need a huge investment in capital to fully modernize its production line, a huge investment to pay and to recover all those boats that had and have problems (to recover public confidence) and a completely new approach to boat production.

Only a big boat company like Hunter as the muscle and the knowledge to make it happen, and to transform a sinking boat company in a commercial success....after a huge injection of money

Regards

Paulo