To me, it's just weird...

Dannyre · #1 (**permalink**) 12-04-2010

Some of the newer designed boats are coming out with sticks designed to be used with no back stay at all. I am sure they will work well, but to me, that's just plain weird....In heavy air I would be outright nerveous...

Minnewaska · #2 (**permalink**) 12-04-2010

I get your point, however, many small boats have no back stays.

eherlihy · #3 (**permalink**) 12-04-2010

Freedom Yachts have NO STAYS AT ALL!

sailingdog · #4 (**permalink**) 12-04-2010

It depends on what you're using the boat for... for most people, the backstay-less rig that Hunter uses is fine, because they're mainly coastal cruising and daysailing in relatively good conditions...

I don't think I'd want to go offshore in the Southern Ocean with a lot of the new backstay-less rigs.

Dannyre · #5 (**permalink**) 12-04-2010

I see all of your points, and it seems the Freedom was one of the originals, but it still seems weird, and if you are sailing in heavy wind and large seas, it would make me uncomfortable....but that's just me I guess....

scottbr · #6 (**permalink**) 12-05-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

It depends on what you're using the boat for... for most people, the backstay-less rig that Hunter uses is fine, because they're mainly coastal cruising and daysailing in relatively good conditions...

I don't think I'd want to go offshore in the Southern Ocean with a lot of the new backstay-less rigs.

I would hazzard a guess that 99% of the boats out there would ever see the Southern Ocean, so why build for the worst extreme. I can name several Hunter 49's, without a backstay, that are currently out cruising the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dannyre

Some of the newer designed boats are coming out with sticks designed to be used with no back stay at all. I am sure they will work well, but to me, that's just plain weird....In heavy air I would be outright nerveous...

Here we go again.

Danny, the B&R rig has been discussed ad infinitum on many forums. They have been around for many years. They work. Do a search on B&R and you'll see all the fun. Hunter also had the Vision line that was keel stepped and no stays, same as the Freedom above.

tdw · #7 (**permalink**) 12-05-2010

Whether or not unstayed rigs or rigs without back stays are less than equal to fully stayed I cannot say but they seem to work in most conditions. Freedom 40s have crossed the Pacific without losing their rigs as have more than a couple of Hunters. Plenty of fully stayed rigs have been lost trying the same thing.

Would I want to take one into the Southern Ocean ? Probably not but then I have no plans at all of sailing into the Southern Ocean and I doubt there are very many cruising sailors who do. (Southern Ocean according to the International Hydrographic Organisation defines the Southern Ocean as being south of 60degrees, Australian and New Zealand reckon its 45-50 degrees. Either way it is one nasty horrible place to take a small cruising sailboat.)

Faster · #8 (**permalink**) 12-05-2010

Our boat has a Hunter-like swept spreader fractional rig, and since adding a roachier main we have gone to a dyneema backstay with a supporting whip to clear the sail in light breezes and DDW.

This allows the security/support of a backstay in the heavier going and a quick and easy way to avoid the leech of the main hanging up in light air tacks and gybes.

I think the BIG plus for properly engineered unstayed rigs is that they are meant to stand on their own, so there's none of that reliance on standing rigging (the failure of which, one way or another, must be the leading cause of mast breakages). However the downsides (windage, reduced sail shape control, marginalized headsails if any at all) would, for me, negate them for coastal cruising

eMKay · #9 (**permalink**) 12-05-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingdog

It depends on what you're using the boat for... for most people, the backstay-less rig that Hunter uses is fine, because they're mainly coastal cruising and daysailing in relatively good conditions...

I don't think I'd want to go offshore in the Southern Ocean with a lot of the new backstay-less rigs.

There is also a lot of engineering ignorance out there, the larger Hunters are perfectly capable of going offshore in the southern oceans, yet people like you poo poo them because you don't understand how they are engineered.

Omatako · #10 (**permalink**) 12-05-2010

At least if you do lose a Freedom-type rig you don't have the panic of having to cut all the stays off before the rig trashes the hull.

But then again, it also limits the chances of salvaging the makings of a jury rig.

Pros and cons to everything.