Fuel Related Questions ~ Biodiesel WVO - SailNet Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 6 Old 12-23-2010 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Question Fuel Related Questions ~ Biodiesel WVO

Is anyone here using waste vegatable oil or biodiesel for to power their trawler or motorsailer?
Curt is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old 12-23-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Gloucester, MA
Posts: 586
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
I have experience running biodiesel in a few boats but never WVO in a boat, only cars. Basically, you need to be careful about the same things as cars. The fuel will eat natural rubber so you can't have any in your fuel system which on a lot of boats will mean replacing the fuel lines. On older engines, there was a lot of natural rubber in the engine's fuel system which means that it isn't a good idea in general. If you are mechanically inclined, you can replace everything with something like Viton. Then again, if you are not mechanically inclined, running any of these fuels isn't a great idea.

Something to watch for with biodiesel is that it tends to break stuff loose in your fuel system and you will plug your filters shortly after starting to run it. This isn't a big deal provided that you plan to change them approximately twice early on and then at the normal interval after that.

Temps don't tend to be an issue on boats since people don't use the boat when it is cold enough for biodiesel to gel. If you are someone who runs your boat at below freezing temps, you should pay attention to this.

The biggest benefit from running blended biodiesel (I have tried many variations from B10-B100) is that at a moderate blend, the exhaust fumes are much less noticeable. I really feel that this made a difference with people getting seasick on long, foggy, rolly days.

WVO is a much bigger commitment and you really have to like tinkering and getting covered in nasty grease. If I regularly negotiated dangerous stretches of water, I would think twice about it or have multiple sets of filters in parallel that I could switch between. If you go WVO, you need to be really careful to keep the mess isolated to the engine room and not the whole boat. Depending on your cooling system, you might have to think about how you are going to heat your wvo tank. Marine tanks also tend to be quite large so it would take a long time to heat the whole thing and one of those drop in fuel sending unit heaters might make a lot more sense.

I hope that this helps.
klem is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 6 Old 12-25-2010
Senior Member
 
ffiill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Blending is a viable option but just with biodiesel or staight veg oil in my opinion depends upon your motives?
Here in the UK with keroscene and diesel having almost doubled in price in last couple of weeks to just under 1 uk per litre! and Supermarket veg oil at just over 1 per litre veg oil is now on the cards.
However just as in my central heating tank to which I add used fltered veg oil to keroscene all I am prepared to do is blend in about 25%.
If as I suspect in US diesel prices remain low then why bother?
Also if you primarily sail then cost of fuel not that important.
ffiill is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 6 Old 12-25-2010
Senior Member
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,564
Thanks: 25
Thanked 167 Times in 156 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
I have considerable experience with 'bio-diesel" especially blends that are from 'reclaim' (cooking oils, etc.).

If you keep the 'blend' to no more than 10% bio-diesel or 'reclaim', chemical compatibility usually is no problem, 15% being the upper limit. This will insure that the typical Buna/Neoprene elastomers of hosing, valve seats and diaphragms, etc. will (somewhat) stay integral for beyond 'short term exposure'.

Beyond 10-15% one really needs to consider Teflon, elastomeric teflon co-polymers, or Viton; .... this includes changing from polypropylene to nylon, UHMWPE, etc. for tankage, etc.
For 'reclaim', that is co-contaminated with oleic and other organic acid forms use only Teflonics (PFA, PTFE, ECTFE. etc.). This includes engine crankshaft, etc. seals, etc. as the normal engine blow-by containing oleic, etc. acid will also soon soften/destroy the Buna/Neoprene engine lube-oil seals, seals on common lube oil recirc. filters/filter housings, oil pan and valve cover gaskets, etc. etc. Also keep the intake (and to some extent exhaust) valve seals under close scrutiny, especially if the 'wiper' section is of OEM BUNA/Neoprene.

10% bio-diesel usually isnt a problem; greater than 15% usually requires quite expensive 're-sealing' and re-gasketing. If using 'reclaimed' cooking oils, the oleic acid component can, on long term, attack the OEM polymer seals, etc. as low as 5% if the fuel is stored/heated to much above 30C.

PTFE/PFA/ECTFE based or Viton seals are horrendously expensive in comparison to the standard BUNA/Neoprene. PFA/PTFE seals also require perfectly smooth shafting journals, etc.

;-)
RichH is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 6 Old 12-25-2010
Senior Member
 
ffiill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 235
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Much of what is being discussed here is very much engine dependant and I would suggest relates to useage in modern high pressure common rail computer controled engines.
Remember Mr. Diesels origional engine was designed to run on peanut oil as he saw it as a solution to providing a power source in third world situations.
My Mercedes OM636 according to its workshop manual will quite happily run on vegetable oil;palm oil etc.This is of course helped by the simple inline fuel injector pump as opposed to a rotary pump or high pressure common rail pump.
For anyone seriosly interested suggest you read
From the fryer to the fuel tank-J.Tickell
ffiill is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 6 Old 12-26-2010
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,938
Thanks: 15
Thanked 130 Times in 123 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffiill View Post
...Remember Mr. Diesels origional engine was designed to run on peanut oil as he saw it as a solution to providing a power source in third world situations.
True. Remember, however, that Mr. Diesel's original motor also relied on copper o-rings and seals that were not subject to disolution as are the seals and o-rings on modern engines.

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Tank Questions nereussailor Gear & Maintenance 2 05-22-2009 10:43 AM
New Fuel Tank - questions sailor25b Gear & Maintenance 16 02-17-2009 05:57 AM
Fuel Gauge questions rikhall Gear & Maintenance 20 01-02-2009 10:22 PM
PSC 37 Purchase related questions avalauncher Pacific Seacraft 21 01-31-2008 06:03 PM
Biodiesel in Marine Engines lgherb Gear & Maintenance 14 06-12-2007 12:44 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome