So much good help re: water lines, can I get thoughts on ... - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-04-2011 Thread Starter
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So much good help re: water lines, can I get thoughts on ...

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post #2 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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Solar

The flexible panels are pricey for what they put out. Plus since they sit flat on a surface without the benefit of cooling air, they loose more efficiency.

You will also get more shadows being on the cabin top (mast / boom shadow). Those shadows (even relative small ones) will kill your output.

PS: 150 feet rode sounds a bit short

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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
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.... Non pressurized Origo alcohol stove (two burner, no oven) vs propane force ten two burner? I was thinking of converting to alcohol over the propane. Thoughts?

I thought about going with soft solar panels mounted on the cabin house instead of a hard panel(s) on a rail mount. Thoughts? I was considering this for weather and offshore work.

Best anchor + rode for stern rail (aft) anchor? I was thinking an appropriate sized fortress with 20' of chain + 150 nylon rode?

Thinking of adding two additional drain scuppers to cockpit, aft part of cockpit. Good/bad idea?

Pressurized water system vs foot pump, should I just do both side by side?

Thanks in advance
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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We have pressure water and foot pump side by side. Pressure water is nice for so many applications, but uses water somewhat wastefully if not careful (use an aerator/flow restrictor in the faucet). Foot pump is nice because it always works (we use whale foot pumps). Note that these are two completely separate systems, so there will be a lot of hoses and connections. Recommend putting an inline filter at each faucet, not at the tank because water sitting in the lines can get foul.

I have no opinion on an aft anchor, we don't use one. IMO, the only need for one is when anchoring in a current which we don't do. But I'll defer to anyone else with an opinion ... but still don't want a cluttered stern rail.

Alcohol vs. Propane. Certainly more installation considerations with propane and they have their own safety considerations. Unless you install an exterior tank (further cluttering your stern rail), finding a suitable below deck place and installing the box can be a challenge. On the other hand pressurized alcohol can be dangerous too. They flare, can spill, and are as hot as propane. We had a love-hate relationship with a pressurized alcohol stove on our Sabre 28. If it were me, I'd go with non-pressurized alcohol. Easier installation than propane and unless you live aboard, it's good enough. We use CNG which is the best of both worlds IMO.

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post #4 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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My son and daughter in law used alcohol (non-press) for three months cruising in the Bahamas and found it to be: very expensive, difficult to find, difficult to bake with, generally a big hassle. They want to convert to propane asap. I've used propane forever and if done properly it's a safe and convenient fuel.

Don't know much about the flexible panels. You need to do an energy audit to determine what size/how many panels you will need to keep the batteries charged. That should be the first step and then you figure out what panels and configuration will work.

More/bigger scuppers are almost always a good idea.

We have and use both pressure and foot pump. For offshore I've always felt that the pressure system should never be used (disabled) because of the risk of a faucet being left on or a fitting letting go. I'd install the foot pumps first and then the pressure system when possible if you are trying to save $.

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post #5 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
(Alberg 30)

.... Non pressurized Origo alcohol stove (two burner, no oven) vs propane force ten two burner? I was thinking of converting to alcohol over the propane. Thoughts?
If you've got the space for one with an oven, please get the oven. It makes things a lot more convenient than trying to use a dutch oven or pressure cooker and gives you a lot more versatility when cooking. Also, propane is better than alcohol for reasons stated previously.

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I thought about going with soft solar panels mounted on the cabin house instead of a hard panel(s) on a rail mount. Thoughts? I was considering this for weather and offshore work.
Not a big fan of soft or semi-rigid panels. They're about half as efficient as the rigid ones and more expensive for the power you get. While they're better in lowlight and shadowed conditions, the rigid panels generally are better overall IMHO.

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Best anchor + rode for stern rail (aft) anchor? I was thinking an appropriate sized fortress with 20' of chain + 150 nylon rode?
Not a bad choice for a stern anchor, but if you go with a Fortress, get the galvanized steel version, rather than the aluminum. A Delta FastSet would be better IMHO though.

The reason I say this is if you're in a situation where you need to apply the "brakes"...and the boat is moving, an aluminum Fortress won't have a prayer of reaching the bottom without kiting... a galvanized one might, a Delta would do much better than any fluke-type anchor.

For instance, going down a narrow channel with the outgoing tide pushing you out...and the engine dies and the bridge isn't open... dropping a Fortress isn't going to stop you since, it might not set at all... You could probably get a Delta to set in that situation... Going up to 30' chain isn't a bad idea...60' would be better...but probably overkill.

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Thinking of adding two additional drain scuppers to cockpit, aft part of cockpit. Good/bad idea?
The faster the cockpit drains the better... the more drains there are, the less likely they are to all be clogged at the same time.

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Pressurized water system vs foot pump, should I just do both side by side?

Thanks in advance
I prefer foot pumps on passage to pressure water. It allows you to save water more easily, since you can't accidentally leave a foot pump "running".

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post #6 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
I thought about going with soft solar panels mounted on the cabin house instead of a hard panel(s) on a rail mount. Thoughts? I was considering this for weather and offshore work.
I recall somewhere on this board there was a member who worked for the largest producers of soft solar panels and he said that even his employers acknowledged that they had not yet found the best solution for these.

He said that they were far more expensive, had poor performance compared to the rigid ones and, more important to me, that their lifespan was fractional (can't remember what the fraction was) compared to rigids.

Seems to me like three great reasons to stay away from them


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post #7 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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Chris

My understanding is that alcohol was the choice of insurance companies who who spooked by the heavier than air characteristic of propane. In my experience propane is less fussy that alcohol and way more convenient. Use a sniffer. Install an solenoid. Ensure the propane locker vents overboard. Make sure the lines are safe and secure. To be really safe, use a sniffer that is wired to the solenoid (there are downsides to that). Shut off the tank when not in use. I do not always do the latter if I trust the solenoids.

The Force 10s are great stoves. The ones with ovens have a door that slides under the stove to help maintain balance. They are easy to clean.

Avoid RV stoves. I was on a boat with one last June. It was a nightmare.

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post #8 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
(Alberg 30).... Non pressurized Origo alcohol stove
Have one and love it. The cost is acceptable once you learn to buy the generic fuel. Using it is no more of a hassle than anything else on a boat. I love cooking with propane but fundamentally have a problem with the explosion hazard on boats. There are no precautions that could lower that risk below my threshold, not with my family on board anyway.

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post #9 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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My girlfriends and I cruised for 6 months down the eastern seaboard to the Abaco's. We used an alcohol stove and found it to be relatively inexpensive and easy to operate. The only drawback is that you do not get as much heat out of an alcohol stove as opposed to propane. Propane systems can be very expensive and I feel that getting propane tanks refilled in remote areas would be difficult.
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post #10 of 20 Old 01-05-2011
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I'd point out that alcohol has its own set of hazards including the fact that alcohol vapors are denser than air and will collect in the bilge, as will gasoline or propane. Also, alcohol fires can be very difficult to extinguish and can cause very serious burns due to the near invisible nature of the alcohol fire flames.

Pressurized alcohol stoves were among the major causes of boat fires and the incidence of fires has dropped significantly as the use of pressurized alcohol stoves has dropped.

Also, using a non-marine stove on a boat is generally a really bad idea, and likely to get your insurance policy voided. Properly installed propane stoves/ovens are pretty safe and fairly foolproof, but in the race between man and God, where man makes something foolproof and God makes a better fool...God is winning, since he doesn't have to replace his fools...he just upgrades the ones he's already got out there.

A solenoid setup with a sniffer help. So does shutting off the tank when not in use.

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Chris

My understanding is that alcohol was the choice of insurance companies who who spooked by the heavier than air characteristic of propane. In my experience propane is less fussy that alcohol and way more convenient. Use a sniffer. Install an solenoid. Ensure the propane locker vents overboard. Make sure the lines are safe and secure. To be really safe, use a sniffer that is wired to the solenoid (there are downsides to that). Shut off the tank when not in use. I do not always do the latter if I trust the solenoids.

The Force 10s are great stoves. The ones with ovens have a door that slides under the stove to help maintain balance. They are easy to clean.

Avoid RV stoves. I was on a boat with one last June. It was a nightmare.

Sailingdog

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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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