Should we even do the intercostal en-route south? From what I am reading... - Page 4 - SailNet Community

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  #31  
Old 04-20-2011
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Many of you have tried to warn Chris about navigating ICW without a practical back up to sails. He seems to not understand that "sailing" in the ICW is not always possible or prudent.

Perhaps when he is sitting in the channel with his sails limp, with a tug pushing three barges his way, with no way of stopping, reality may set in for him. I pray that no one else is on his boat. There is a pretty good chance that a few parts of his boat will be found, only parts. Sometimes nothing is found. Hell, they may not even know they have hit anything. The front barge will only have a few minor scars, no major damage. At least thats what we see down on the Gulf.

Chris, if nothing else, take a short trip to the ICW and watch traffic for a day in one of the more restricted areas. Better yet, call the local USCG office and run your idea by them. Get their thoughts.
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  #32  
Old 04-20-2011
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Chris-

It's good to hear that you're not modifying your boat in a manner that precludes re-installing an engine if you change your mind later. It's also good to hear that you know that you'll have to do most or all of your trip along the coast if you go engine-less.

Look, I'm more or less on your side. I hate my engine. I hate running it. I hate the noise and I love nothing better than the silence. I sail off of, and into my dock everytime the opportunity presents itself.

However, the first/last 500 yards of my journey is all sharp turns, very narrow passages and shifty, puffy breezes (or no breeze at all!) because of the land features around me. Even I know when to yield to the inevitable. I owe those around me that consideration in the name of safety.

Have you considered a compromise, such as mounting a stern bracket for a 5hp kicker? You could easily stow an outboard of that size in the same space the inboard sat. Are you carrying a dinghy? If the dinghy will use an outboard, it could be the same engine for both purposes.

I'm only talking about using the OB as an emergency means of "getting out of the way", not necessarily transiting the ICW.
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  #33  
Old 04-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
You know, this type of post is sadly so typical of the forums.

Did you even read anything I wrote? I said clearly in post #39 that I had posted this old thread before we decided to go without an engine, so I wasn't even asking this question based on doing the ICW motorless.

Further, I said in post #28 that we are in all likelihood going wherever we decide to go on the outside (meaning not the ICW).

Still further, in my most recent post before this one, I said that we were going to give motorless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, we will buy a motor for the boat. Since I have to spell everything out it appears, let me do so by saying that we will know whether or not we need a motor BEFORE setting out from our home waters.

Why not take the time to actually read the thread and see what I wrote, rather than take the opportunity to be so condescending? I love how some people have to assume that I'll be as inept as them without a stinky little motor to bail me out of some situation I would not have put myself in to begin with.

"Sitting in the channel with my sails limp with a barge bearing down on me".

As freaking if MDbee..
You also state in post #29 "Meh, that wouldn't worry me in the least. I'd enjoy the challenge of it I suspect." Concerning transiting draw bridges without an engine. This shows lack of experience sailing without an engine, lack of judgement with concern to other boaters, your boat, your crew, the draw bridge tender, motorist who need the bridge down (after you break it with your mast) to get to the other side of river. So it's not just all about you on this. And from what I understand, you have no blue water experience either.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2011
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No motor is fine, as long as one is willing, and able, to go where and when wind and tide dictate, sculling oars notwithstanding. (There was one time I had to spend an extra night at a marina, because even with the motor, I couldn't get off the dock due to the wind.)

Actually though, having a motor means you have two systems, not one, otherwise you'd be a powerboat. I lost my motor while heading east up the Keys in ESE wind of 20 knots, at 4 in the morning. A situation ripe for disaster, was I not able to roll out my jib and beat off the shore.

Personally, I'd rather have a motor and not use it, than not have one and have to pass up places I'd like to go, when I want to go there. For instance, you can't do the Waccamaw River (unless you're going to turn around and go back out the way you came in) without doing the cut through Myrtle Beach. And that is a beautiful stretch of water, well worth the ugliness of the Myrtle Beach cut.

There are many areas of the ICW that can be sailed, what can be problematic is getting in or out of them.

But let's look at it from an off-shore perspective. Say you get to St Augustine at the end of the day, and the tide is running out and the wind is out of the west, southwest, or southeast? You're not going to scull against that, not there (or much of anywhere else on the East Coast from NC down.) Or, a place like Miami, you're not just dealing with wind, tide and current, but traffic as well. And experience has shown me, that can be a problem, even with a motor.

That's not to say you shouldn't go engineless. I just question whether the value of the satisfaction is more than the limits. But, it's totally your call.
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2011
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To a large part, it depends on just what you hope to accomplish in your time on the water. Ideally, time should never be a problem, but that isn't always the case. Medical emergencies, storms, or just making a decent anchorage can all necessitate a need for speed (relatively speaking). As I said though, it's a personal decision.

Did I read you put a 55 gal water tank in place of the motor? That seems like a rather substantial weight increase at one end of the boat.
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  #36  
Old 04-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
........................As I see it, you CAN go just about anywhere under sail - the difference (imo) is time frames/time expectations, planning, and ability. Can a pure sailing vessel follow your motor sailor time frames? Of course not. Can it go just about anywhere (with a few exceptions like certain stretches of the ICW) the motorsailor can go with careful planning and forethought? Yes................We are doing it the way we want to do it, and like I said a billion times already - if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'll buy a motor if I find I need to. Simple as that. Fair winds everyone
Sure, this is wise and true. Though, "time and tide waits for no man" we can wait for them. Most can't see the value of the patience and skill to persevere. Take care and joy, Aythya crew
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post

That particular hypocrisy is no different at all than saying you could never have visited all the places you have visited without your motor, because like I asked the poster who said just that earlier in this thread - what on earth would you do in these "motor only" places if your motor crapped out on you? Wouldn't that be (gasp) unsafe?

It can't be both ways. You can't say on one hand how unsafe it is to be a "sail only" vessel, then say in the same breath that you are willing to venture where you have to totally rely on one single solitary system, a motor. Give me a break.

LOL! Well, for someone who is “sick of people making stupid assumptions about my sailing abilities…” and so on, you’re doing a pretty fair job of doing so about my own, and some of the things I’ve done with boats… (grin)

When I think of the many places I would not have seen without the use of an engine, a couple come to mind above all else… Not because venturing there would have been particularly dangerous to have done so, but rather just would have been so damned inconvenient to attempt, I simply would have given them a miss…

One would be Guatemala’s Lago Izabal and the spectacular, magical passage up the Rio Dulce canyon…



The other is considerably less dramatic, but no less beautiful a cruising ground – the inland network of rivers and lakes of New Brunswick’s St John River… I enjoyed that area immensely, but going up there involves transiting the famous Reversing Falls at St John, created by the differential between the water level of the river, and some of the highest tides in the world found in the Bay of Fundy… I’m not saying it would be impossible to sail or scull my 30-footer through the Reversing Falls during one of the two 20-30 minute passage windows that occur daily, but I would bet most of the locals would consider anyone attempting it to be a fool of epic proportions…


So, get back to us if you ever make it into places such as these without an engine, I’d love to hear how it went…

I’ve not been one to argue against going engineless from a safety perspective, I’ve always had great respect for what sailors like the Pardeys and the Carrs have accomplished under sail alone… Everything with cruising and boats involves tradeoffs, however, and this one is simply one of those I’m unable and unwilling to make… There are far more than just “certain stretches of the ICW” that will be off limits to an engineless boat… IMHO, some of the finest sailing and cruising to be found in North America, for example, is on the Great Lakes… However, the only way you’ll get there without an engine in a boat from Annapolis, is on a truck… Or, closer to home, I rate the sounds of North Carolina to offer some of the nicest cruising along the entire East Coast, but your options for ever getting in there without an engine are severely limited, and will be extremely risky even in the most favorable conditions…

As PBzeer mentions above, there are many sections of the ICW that can be navigated under sail alone, and I’m always a bit disappointed more cruisers don’t bother to avail themselves of the possibility… Then again, I’m one of the internet’s poster children for ranting about the fact that kroozers don’t like sailing, period… (grin)… But, as PB rightly says, getting into, or back out of, those particular sections without an engine to begin with is the problem, and the prime reason why even sailors as skilled as the Pardeys transit the East coast without having done a single mile of the waterway under their own power, to the best of my knowledge…

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
The bottom line is that people who have never tried going engineless themselves seem to find it quite easy to fancy themselves experts on the topic.
Substitute "traveled the ICW" for "tried going engineless" - works for me, as well...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 04-21-2011 at 10:20 AM.
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2011
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[QUOTE=JonEisberg;722513]or back out of, those particular sections without an engine to begin with is the problem, and the prime reason why even sailors as skilled as the Pardeys transit the East coast without having done a single mile of the waterway under their own power, to the best of my knowledge…
QUOTE]

How do the Pardey's transit the East Coast if they do not do it under there own power- what power are they using?
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  #39  
Old 04-22-2011
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Chris,
Jon is better then just alright: An Insider's ICW | Cruising World
He's been up and down the east coast more then most of us and there are other articles he wrote for the same sailrag that pertain to the 'ditch' (aka, the ICW).
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  #40  
Old 04-22-2011
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[QUOTE=casey1999;722785]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
or back out of, those particular sections without an engine to begin with is the problem, and the prime reason why even sailors as skilled as the Pardeys transit the East coast without having done a single mile of the waterway under their own power, to the best of my knowledge…
QUOTE]

How do the Pardey's transit the East Coast if they do not do it under there own power- what power are they using?
What I meant was, they haven't traveled any length of the ICW unassisted... I've seen numerous references to them having been towed in and out of various ports along the east coast, most of them undoubtedly apocryphal...

A good friend happened to be present in Annapolis years ago when Larry brought their TALIESEN into the boat show... ghosted in under sail, dropped them at precisely the right moment, a couple of sweeps with the oar, and he was alongside with greater precision than most could manage with that stoopid Dock-N-Go joystick from Beneteau...

He said as an example of seamanship/boathandling, it was a pure work of art..
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