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  #11  
Old 01-31-2011
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What amuses and appalls me is the premium $$$ that some small bluewater boats command. A crapped out 20 year old Flicka with blown out sails and a porta-potty is a $20 K boat. An average PSC Dana from before Milli Vanilli's snitchout ? $40K. I dunno, I'm having a hard time justifying the hype, knowing that my own hell-for-stout, six shroud, diesel powered, standing headroom 23'er might fetch $8K on a good day.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2011
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I say buy what you like. To me, the Alberg 30 (with a masonite deck mind you) is the best value ever.

It can circumnavigate, and it's a joy in the bay as well.

Kind of small though, inside..
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Old 01-31-2011
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Too much boat? Have a look at this.

I found this article a few months ago about yacht stability over the past 50 years. Might explain a bit of why people want bigger boats these days.

Yacht stability article
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2011
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It's the whole "chopped off amidships" problem (that, and no appreciable keel to speak of).

That queen sized aft cabin on a 31 foot benny is gonna cost you something..
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Old 01-31-2011
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I have no bluewater experience but I like the kind of seakindliness that the older heavier lead keel boats offer...they need alot of work and sweat equity though...which is okay if you are willing and also just don't have the cash for anything else....necessity is the mother of invention
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVVega View Post
I found this article a few months ago about yacht stability over the past 50 years. Might explain a bit of why people want bigger boats these days.

Yacht stability article
That book is over 20 years old

He is talking about the boats from the 50's and 60's versus the boats from the 80's.

He is talking about static stability. Posterior test tanks had shown the relative importance of static stability versus dynamic stability. Regarding dynamic stability huge advances where made in the last 20 years. Only that explains that in the last decade, from the many hundreds of very light mini-racers (22ft solo sailed) that crossed the Atlantic racing, there are almost no recorded capsizes. Last year, a modified mini-racer circumnavigated no stop, without any major problems.

Regarding static stability he is saying what I was saying in a previous post. What happens is this:

The positive GZ curve (arm) of modern boats is much better than the one from the older boats. The values are considerably higher, but as it is said on the article, the area that counts for the energy needed to capsize a boat is the one behind the positive part of the RM curve (moments). The Rm curve is obtained multiplying each value of GZ by the mass of the boat. As the mass of older boats is much bigger (for the same length), the RM curve is bigger.

That's why I have said that compared to an older boat, you would need a bigger new one to have the same static stability.

But the weight of the boat is a much better indicator of the cost of a boat, so, for the same price you will have two boats with the same weight, an older type (smaller) and a new design (bigger). As the GZ is better on modern boats, the modern boat will have a slightly better positive stability.

Bottom line, for the same price, generally a modern design will be a better sailing boat than an older design, on speed and also on positive stability, not to mention dynamic stability, were big improvements were made.

Off course, there will be always exceptions, not on sailing performance (modern boats are always better) but on seaworthiness. Old boats tend to be made as all around boats while modern ones tend to be more specialized. Most of them can do offshore passages but in most cases you have to equip them for the job. The ones that are specifically designed for offshore work are relatively rare and that reflects the market and the sailors needs: Who needs a boat specifically designed for a type of sailing that is seldom or never made by most sailors? That would make that boat a worse coastal cruiser and a significantly more expensive boat. And that lead us to the object of this thread


Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-01-2011 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 02-01-2011
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I have found defiantly that the boat can handle much more than the person can. But a larger boat can help shield you from some of those elements. I know Robin Knox-Johnston who one the 1969 golden globe race did it in a 32 foot sailboat but it is defiantly true that boats used to be built more stout.
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Old 02-01-2011
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My thoughts

I have wondered the same thing as the OP. Do we think we need more boat then we really do?

We just bought a Catalina 310. When you look at how this boat was constructed, a trip to the Bahamas should be easily accomplished, providing you watch your weather window, know what you are doing and provision appropriately.

Why can't it cross the Atlantic with a good weather window? Maybe as part of a rally?

I wouldn't try to circumnavigate in it or cross the Pacific. But sailing the coast, crossing to the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, then crossing the Atlantic and cruising the Med; that seems doable and like a lot of fun.
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Old 02-01-2011
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I think there's more involved than simply picking between a bluewater boat and a coastal boat. Many of those bluewater boats you see on the Chesapeake Bay may well have been chosen by their respective owners because they prefer a saltier, more classic look. A lot of the mass-produced production boats from Catalina/Hunter/Jeanneau/Beneteau/etc have a sleek, modern look while many sailors prefer more classic lines and designs, even if they have to purchase a bluewater boat to get them.
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Old 02-01-2011
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In the days of Eric Hiscock's voyaging most ocean passages were made in 30 to 35 foot sailboats. Now, the average is closer to 40 to 45 feet, not because they are safer, but largely because of the advancement in labor saving devices that allow easier sailhandling of a larger boat. Take care and joy, Aythya crew
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