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  #21  
Old 02-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I don't know if this would be strong enough, since a bolt rope foot sail depends on the bolt rope for a good part of the foot's strength, and doing this would more than likely cause the sail to tear more readily.
Have a look at the boom ends in both of the photos I posted. Both of these mains have been converted from a bolt-rope in the track to (a) slug and (b) webbing via a reinforced clew. You can clearly see that the bolt-rope is still there..
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Running your reefing lines is also simpler with a loosefooted mainsail, as you don't have to have the sailmaker include slits or grommets for the reefing line to pass through when you're tying it around the boom.
Could you explain? Are you saying the reef lines on a loose-footed main don't pass through grommets in the sail? I have a non-loose-footed main and I have grommets at the leech and luff that act as the clew and tack of the reefed-down sail. I have two-line reefing, so I don't tie anything to the boom.... are you talking about the smaller grommets that run across the body of the sail? Wouldn't you need those with a loose-footed main, if you wanted to tie up the slab of hanging sailcloth?
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2011
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Great thread ! & Great ppl sharing exp & info freely !!

Feels good to learn something good every day
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2011
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One other thing to consider with a loose footed main is the possible need to rework your outhaul to take advantage of the greater ability to shape the lower section of the main using the out haul. If you already have your outhaul led back to a winch then you're good to go, but if not you'll probably want to consider doing so, or perhaps increasing the purchase on the existing system.

On my boat, I increased the purchase on the in the boom outhaul system but did not lead the line aft. I only adjust the outhaul if I'm getting overpowered and need to flatten the sail so I don't mind going to the mast to make the adjustment. If racing, you might find it more convenient to lead the outhaul aft so you can tweak for minor changes.
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2011
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Good point Mid. My outhaul is led to the cockpit so I will be able to use on the my smalller cabintop winches. We have 5 winches...three on the cabin top (one 2sp-43) for the main, one on the port side where the main halyard, centerboard, and outhaul are located, and one on the starboard where the spinaker halyard, outhaul, spare halyard and vang sheet are located.

SD, thanks as always for the tip.

Dave

We are putting a tides strong track system in for the main also when replace it as with four full battens we want to make sure it is more easily managed. I am getting the sail from Quantum. 8 zo high modulus Challenge, 2 reefs triple stitched.

It seems that there are advantages to this loose foot sail idea. I guess I will have to give up my old ways of freaking out when I see light between my boom and sail foot.
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Have a look at the boom ends in both of the photos I posted. Both of these mains have been converted from a bolt-rope in the track to (a) slug and (b) webbing via a reinforced clew. You can clearly see that the bolt-rope is still there..
If you read the post I was replying to, the poster said:

Quote:
Alternativly I could remove most of the bolt rope, say up to 6 inches behind the clew and 6 inches from the mast allowing the most of the foot to clear the grove.
He was going to remove the bolt rope from most of the foot and use the bolt rope remnants instead of adding slugs, which is why I replied the way I did.
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Good point Mid. My outhaul is led to the cockpit so I will be able to use on the my smalller cabintop winches. We have 5 winches...three on the cabin top (one 2sp-43) for the main, one on the port side where the main halyard, centerboard, and outhaul are located, and one on the starboard where the spinaker halyard, outhaul, spare halyard and vang sheet are located.

SD, thanks as always for the tip.
Happy to help.

Quote:
Dave

We are putting a tides strong track system in for the main also when replace it as with four full battens we want to make sure it is more easily managed. I am getting the sail from Quantum. 8 zo high modulus Challenge, 2 reefs triple stitched.

It seems that there are advantages to this loose foot sail idea. I guess I will have to give up my old ways of freaking out when I see light between my boom and sail foot.
A friend installed the Tides Strong Track system and has been really happy with it. The one thing to watch is the main drops pretty fast with it....almost as fast as with a batt-car system. It really helps with raising, lowering and reefing the main, especially if you're not directly head to wind, since the pressure the full battens add makes it a bit more difficult to raise and lower otherwise.
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  #28  
Old 02-03-2011
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The terminal end of the reefing clew and tack lines are usually attached to the boom by tying a bowline around the standing part of the line after looping it around the boom. On a bolt-rope-footed sail, you have to pass the reefing line through a grommet or slit along the foot of the sail to do this, which requires the sailmaker to provide these openings. With a loose-footed sail, you don't have to do this. And if the sailmaker puts the grommets or slits in the wrong place, when you reef the sail, you may damage the sail. You can see what I mean by looking at the boom in the foreground of this photo:


See the turquoise line...that's the terminal end of a reefing line tied around the boom.

As for the nettles, which are between the tack and clew reefing lines, are used to tie up the bunt of the sail when it is reefed. On a loose footed you can tie up just the bunt of the sail, rather than having to tie the bunt of the sail around the boom, which is the case on a bolt-rope footed main sail. If you try shaking out the reef and haven't untied the nettles—you stand a much greater chance of tearing the sail if the nettles are tied around the boom, since the boom doesn't have any give.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
Could you explain? Are you saying the reef lines on a loose-footed main don't pass through grommets in the sail? I have a non-loose-footed main and I have grommets at the leech and luff that act as the clew and tack of the reefed-down sail. I have two-line reefing, so I don't tie anything to the boom.... are you talking about the smaller grommets that run across the body of the sail? Wouldn't you need those with a loose-footed main, if you wanted to tie up the slab of hanging sailcloth?
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 02-03-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
A couple of thoughts to consider
zz4gta - I know the boat in the photos. The skipper is bowman with us for Gov Cup.
Hey Sabre, yeah he drove my boat while I did pit for SBRW last year. I'll have to see if he's interested in doing it again this year. You doing DTB? I'm signing up for Gov Cup as well.

To the OP, the foot of the sail isn't heavily loaded.

Not the best pic, but you get the idea. Should be pretty easy to convert to loose foot, but as SD said, don't just leave 6" of rope luff at either end. It'll screw up the shape and may even try to pull out of the track.

And Chef, if you're getting a new main, make sure its loose foot. You'll never go back. The only real benefit from a shelf foot is having a rain water collection device in the ocean, and DDW the 'cup' shape of the shelf foot may give a slight speed benefit. I'm willing to bet its less than a 0.05 knot, if it's measurable at all. I have a main with a shelf foot, and it's not horrible, it's just that the loose foot is so much better. No reason to get a new sail w/o a loose foot.
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2011
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You doing DTB? I'm signing up for Gov Cup as well.
Well, he was bowman... he couldn't make it last year.. not sure about this year. Pic below is from 2009
2009 MD Governor’s Cup (31 July - 01 August 2009)

DTB is the plan. I think that work will finally cooperate and I'll be on this side of the country in May for the first time in 3 years. I'm glad to hear that you're doing Gov Cup; it may be your last chance. It looks like work will cooperate with that one too - I'm in Hawaii for 4 wks just before and in NJ for 2 weeks just after the race. A squeaker. Gonna have 2 new sails for these races; I'm about to pull the trigger on the main (loose foot, of course!).

Sorry to hijack the thread.. now returning to our originally scheduled debate.......
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