Roach and How Many Battens? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
So fare we're evenly split between 2+2 and full battens. To summarize so far:

Full Battens:
PROS:
1. More overall sail stability as the sail ages
CONS:
1. A bit heavier
2. Lower panels are more difficult to reef/furl (As I know from personal experience)


2+2 Battens:
PROS:
1. Lighter
2. Easier reefing/furling due to less bulk and mass.
3. A bit more control when shaping the sail.
CONS:
1. Perhaps a bit less overall sail shape stability as the sail ages.


I'll add an over the top leech system to the sail. Adjusting the leech line when off the wind can be arduous. Thanks guys!
2 FULL + 2 LOOOOOOONG (tapered) battens .... still easily reefed and only slightly less shape control than full battens, no 'hang ups' with batt-cars, etc.
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post #12 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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Go with 2+2

You talk about sail longevity as a a criteria. I would argue that a sail that is better shaped (2+2) is going to last longer than a sail that can't be shaped as well. I like the idea of going with the tapered fulls versus the fixed cross-section ones.

How long to intend on keeping your main? If it's more than 5-7 years of frequent use, and made of dacron, it will be probably be "blown" with either configuration.

Be careful on the added roach, adding a lot of roach makes the sail more powerful in light air, but can be negative if the wind pipes up. A sail with a light or no roach won't have to be reefed as early as one with a lot of roach. We added roach to ours and I definitely notice the difference in the boat heel angle in fresh to moderate winds. Whereas before I would think about reefing at 17 kts apparent, now I need to think about it at 15 kts. If you do add roach, keep it just inside the backstay. An overlapped roach cause a lot of wear on the sail.

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post #13 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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battens and sail raising

Hey,

Why not compromise on 3 full and 1 partial

Anyway, do you raise the main from the mast or the cockpit? With my 28' Newport I had all lines led aft, including the main. I didn't have lazy jacks, so raising the main from the cockpit was easier. The main was relatively small, so it was easy to raise.

My 35' o'day has a much bigger main, and it has full battens and lazy jacks. When I bought the boat all the lines were led aft and it was a fair amount of work to get the main up from the cockpit. However, I can easily raise the main from mast. The friction of the block at the mast and then a turning block and line clutch really made a difference. Now I raise and lower the main from the mast and it's east. I can jump the halyard most of the way up and then a few turns on the winch and I'm all done.

Good luck,
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #14 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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Do you have an adjustable backstay? If so, add max roach and add a flicker. You can always reef.
2+2 if you're racing on a frequent basis. If not, get full length tapered battens. Sometimes it pays to have a stiff set and a soft set of battens.

Cross cut is unfortunate. Tri-radial will hold it's shape longer. And a dacron sail will be out of shape from when it was 'new' after year 2. Dacron stretches, and stays that way. If you keep the main for 7 years, it'll be s-l-o-w long before it's "blown out". Buying a high dollar sail sucks at first. But you're fast until it grenades in spectacular fashion 4-5 years later.

Maybe a Norlam, or a combo sail? Pentex?

Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
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post #15 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB View Post
We added roach to ours and I definitely notice the difference in the boat heel angle in fresh to moderate winds.
DrB
Suggest you consider a second set of STIFFER for top 2 battens for 'heavier' winds ... keeps the 'shoulder' in the top panels of the sail flatter ... and you dont need all that 'twist' in the heavier winds (except when pounding into steep chop).

If you keep the leech exit FLAT, rather than with needing to apply excess m-sheet pressure which tends to 'hook the leech to weather', plus change to flatter shape at the top with stiffer (and with the taper for more forward draft) battens .... youll go faster and with not much increase in heeling moment. A lot of the heeling moment comes from the 'shoulder' of a sail; making it flatter with stiffer battens for the higher wind-ranges at the top should help. Its easy to change battens.
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post #16 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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If you end up going with a very roachy main - overlaps your backstay - you will probably find that the 2+2 configuration is probably going to be easiest to tack in the light stuff. What means of attachment will your main have to your mast? If it's going to have slugs on it make sure that your sail only has one at each batten. My first new 4 full batten main had two slugs at each batten, one just above, and one just below. Not too much of a pain in the ass going up, but when dousing the battens would end up causing the two slugs to bind. Granted it was an easy fix - just take one out, and there was a spare, rarely used one available too, but really unnecessary.
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post #17 of 25 Old 02-04-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
If you end up going with a very roachy main - overlaps your backstay
I'd like a roach that approaches the backstay but does not overlap due to the chaffing issues. I just want to fill some of the empty air.

Quote:
consider a second set of STIFFER for top 2 battens for 'heavier' winds
We plan to have a set for light air (July /Aug) and another set for fresher breezes. I saw the same recommendation on Quantum's site.

I'm also leaning toward an Over-The-Top leech line.

Sabre 38 "Victoria"

Last edited by Sabreman; 02-04-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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post #18 of 25 Old 02-04-2011
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The over the top leech line is probably a good bet for your boat and the type of sailing you do. Not for me, small boat and rig, very weight sensitive.

Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-22-2011 Thread Starter
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Update

So this is what we finally ended up with.

We finally went with a main sail by Evolution Sails. Scott Gibbs runs the Easton MD loft and was great to work with. Of the 9 quotes (local & mail order) that I received, he was one of only two lofts that insisted on measuring the boat. We discussed sail material and weight finally settling on Challenge High Aspect 8.62 oz. We went with full roach, a 2+2 configuration, loose foot with leech and foot lines. Scott was not a great fan of over the over-the-top-leech so I kept it simple. We have 2 sets of reef points and cunningham. The upper two batten pockets are reinforced with a plastic pocket to reduce compression pressure on the sail track. In addition to sail numbers, we added two rows of draft stripes. Nice sail ties with a sewn loop at the end (secure with a hitch vs. square knot). Nice custom pusher stick to set the battens inside the velcro'd pocket; elegant solution.

I went with Evolution because of the personal attention, their reputation for racing sails (I consider mine a cruising sail with an attitude), and the fact that the sail was made locally in Easton (I visited when it was being built-fun). Price was not the cheapest nor most expensive; a little bit higher than the median price. I did not experience any sailmaker "arrogance" as with at least 2 other lofts. Very down to earth.

Initial fit showed the that the foot was too long, but Evolution came to the boat (all the way over in VA), picked it up, and delivered the adjusted sail cheerfully and without question. I also had them replace the racing numbers on a spinnaker, which came out fine. I installed the sail yesterday and at the dock it looks good. I still need to see it properly tensioned and sailing for a final judgement. Not sure when that will be - it's HOT here and windless.

I would buy from them again.
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Sabre 38 "Victoria"
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-23-2011
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i recently had a custom sail made and ive experienced friction as well. im not sure if it is maybe because of the brandy new slugs on the track but if there is any wind direction besides dead on, it will lock and i wont be able to hoist. i put some lube on the track and it helped a bit. well see how it goes in the future.
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