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-   -   Roach and How Many Battens? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/71825-roach-how-many-battens.html)

Sabreman 02-03-2011 10:26 PM

Roach and How Many Battens?
 
We've been discussion mainsail feet in a separate thread. Now for the battens.

As many of you know, I'm buying a mainsail. I'd like for it to be a cruising triadial, but cost will force it to be a cross cut. :( We predominately cruise with an occasional race. Longevity is key closely followed by performance. Primary location is the Chesapeake and perhaps coastal offshore (Annapolis- Newport) if I can get enough time to get that far south, blah, blah.

The sail will be loose footed for all the reasons listed in the other thread. The next question is the number of battens and the roach. I'd like as full a roach as possible to maximize sail area, but am in a bit of a quandary regarding # of battens. I'm leaning toward 2 full upper and 2 partial lower battens. The North dealer suggests 4 full battens for longevity. I already have 4 full battens on my old retrofitted main and it's difficult to hoist at times (it's 60lbs).

Opinions?

paulk 02-03-2011 10:41 PM

You obviously need 20 battens to support at least 5' of roach to get the sail area you need in the "Dead Sea", often called Chesapeake Bay.

Your sailmaker is correct. Full battens will provide maximum longevity in the sail. The difference in weight between the full-battened version he suggests and the long & short mix you lean towards may be as much as 10 to 12 pounds. Not really a big difference to hoist. The version you favor may be cheaper because there's less labor & materials. The longevity factor is difficult to gauge. Ful battens down low don't have as much work holding the sail flat as the upper ones tend to, so (as you sort of already determined) they're not as valuable as full upper battens. Try it half and half and see if you like it. Works for us.

sailingdog 02-03-2011 11:00 PM

The problem probably isn't the fact that you've got full battens, but more likely that the battens are causing pressure against the sail track and the resulting friction is what makes raising/lowering the sail difficult. I have the same issue with my sail.

If you were to upgrade to a batt car or Tides Strong Track system when you get your new main sail, I'd bet that you'd find even a full battened mainsail would be easier to raise and lower than what you've got now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabreman (Post 694286)
We've been discussion mainsail feet in a separate thread. Now for the battens.

As many of you know, I'm buying a mainsail. I'd like for it to be a cruising triadial, but cost will force it to be a cross cut. :( We predominately cruise with an occasional race. Longevity is key closely followed by performance. Primary location is the Chesapeake and perhaps coastal offshore (Annapolis- Newport) if I can get enough time to get that far south, blah, blah.

The sail will be loose footed for all the reasons listed in the other thread. The next question is the number of battens and the roach. I'd like as full a roach as possible to maximize sail area, but am in a bit of a quandary regarding # of battens. I'm leaning toward 2 full upper and 2 partial lower battens. The North dealer suggests 4 full battens for longevity. I already have 4 full battens on my old retrofitted main and it's difficult to hoist at times (it's 60lbs).

Opinions?


chef2sail 02-03-2011 11:11 PM

We are in the same situation. I have just put the ok for a full batten (4) Main cross cut 8 oz Challenger High Modulus, 2 reefs, extra reinforced clews. Our sailing is very similar to yours as we take a three week vacation every summer and travel out of the Bay and up to New England. We also have the occasional race ( with our C&C we are somewhat competitive with other similar boats).

We are also buying the stong track tides system for the ease of hoisting/ lower the sail, especially since the extra weight will make it trend more resistance if not perfectly into the wind. Our current sailk was configured with 2 partial two full.

I would get a second quote from Quantum. The difference between my sail and the exact same one from North and UK was significant. I was able to get a discount on the tides system from them.

Feel free to PM me with our information ( price of both)

Dave

RichH 02-03-2011 11:34 PM

If you're not actively racing, I'd go with 2+2

Id also include 2, maybe 3, sets of battens for the varied conditions that are on the Ches:
First set would be tapered 'soft' battens for light winds so that the max. draft occurs at about mid cord, especially for the top panels --- to power-up the head (shoulder) sections during the 'doldrum' conditions of July/August on the Ches.
Second set would be for spring fall sailing, a bit stiffer and tapered so that the draft sets a little more forward of the 'light' battens.
Optional Third set is for running off to New England ... stiff battens to depower the top/head/shoulder when sailing in the strong afternoon 'sea breezes' along the NJ/NE coast ... and for better sailing when deep reefed.

Other & Again, especially targeting offshore sailing - an over-the-top leech line system so that you can control the leech tension from the base of the mast, etc. but you'll have to go back to the 'other' thread for the other recommendations --- boltrope additions, etc. if you want a LONG-life sail, etc.

Cross-cut is fine - you can 'follow' the 'stretch', etc. better by set/shaping adjustments as the sail ages; not as 'heavy' as a radial, etc.

blt2ski 02-04-2011 12:04 AM

I went with a 2+2 on my 30'r. Hoists just fine frankly.

Not sure if you have an Ullman loft near you, but they have a laminate panel sewn sails that cost wise compare to and slightly less than Norths crosscut. material is slightly lighter, which in light winds is nice, but it is stronger than dacron. Great pulling sail too, much better than dacron frankly.

I also went loose foot, much better for controling shape etc. Along with why I went with the 2+2 battens. I also have a light wt top batten for the under 7knot days here on puget sound in the summer, sometime I even leave the top one out! Then again, I have a slight overlap of the back stay too.

marty

Sabreman 02-04-2011 08:35 AM

So fare we're evenly split between 2+2 and full battens. To summarize so far:

Full Battens:
PROS:
1. More overall sail stability as the sail ages
CONS:
1. A bit heavier
2. Lower panels are more difficult to reef/furl (As I know from personal experience)


2+2 Battens:
PROS:
1. Lighter
2. Easier reefing/furling due to less bulk and mass.
3. A bit more control when shaping the sail.
CONS:
1. Perhaps a bit less overall sail shape stability as the sail ages.


I'll add an over the top leech system to the sail. Adjusting the leech line when off the wind can be arduous. Thanks guys!

JimsCAL 02-04-2011 11:19 AM

Good summary. To the full batten option I'd add a bit more expensive and a bit harder to raise and lower.

sailingdog 02-04-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimsCAL (Post 694427)
Good summary. To the full batten option I'd add a bit more expensive and a bit harder to raise and lower.

But full batten mains drop so neatly into the lazyjacks. :D

Sabreman 02-04-2011 11:40 AM

Quote:

But full batten mains drop so neatly into the lazyjacks
I hate lazyjacks and took 'em off the boat when I bought it. To many strings and not enough benefit to offset the clutter. I grew up flaking a wide variety of sails and just couldn't see the benefit. Ick. But I'm not disparaging anyone with them, just not for me. ;)


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