Roach and How Many Battens? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-03-2011
Sabreman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sabreman will become famous soon enough Sabreman will become famous soon enough
Roach and How Many Battens?

We've been discussion mainsail feet in a separate thread. Now for the battens.

As many of you know, I'm buying a mainsail. I'd like for it to be a cruising triadial, but cost will force it to be a cross cut. We predominately cruise with an occasional race. Longevity is key closely followed by performance. Primary location is the Chesapeake and perhaps coastal offshore (Annapolis- Newport) if I can get enough time to get that far south, blah, blah.

The sail will be loose footed for all the reasons listed in the other thread. The next question is the number of battens and the roach. I'd like as full a roach as possible to maximize sail area, but am in a bit of a quandary regarding # of battens. I'm leaning toward 2 full upper and 2 partial lower battens. The North dealer suggests 4 full battens for longevity. I already have 4 full battens on my old retrofitted main and it's difficult to hoist at times (it's 60lbs).

Opinions?
__________________
Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 02-03-2011
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
You obviously need 20 battens to support at least 5' of roach to get the sail area you need in the "Dead Sea", often called Chesapeake Bay.

Your sailmaker is correct. Full battens will provide maximum longevity in the sail. The difference in weight between the full-battened version he suggests and the long & short mix you lean towards may be as much as 10 to 12 pounds. Not really a big difference to hoist. The version you favor may be cheaper because there's less labor & materials. The longevity factor is difficult to gauge. Ful battens down low don't have as much work holding the sail flat as the upper ones tend to, so (as you sort of already determined) they're not as valuable as full upper battens. Try it half and half and see if you like it. Works for us.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 02-03-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
The problem probably isn't the fact that you've got full battens, but more likely that the battens are causing pressure against the sail track and the resulting friction is what makes raising/lowering the sail difficult. I have the same issue with my sail.

If you were to upgrade to a batt car or Tides Strong Track system when you get your new main sail, I'd bet that you'd find even a full battened mainsail would be easier to raise and lower than what you've got now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
We've been discussion mainsail feet in a separate thread. Now for the battens.

As many of you know, I'm buying a mainsail. I'd like for it to be a cruising triadial, but cost will force it to be a cross cut. We predominately cruise with an occasional race. Longevity is key closely followed by performance. Primary location is the Chesapeake and perhaps coastal offshore (Annapolis- Newport) if I can get enough time to get that far south, blah, blah.

The sail will be loose footed for all the reasons listed in the other thread. The next question is the number of battens and the roach. I'd like as full a roach as possible to maximize sail area, but am in a bit of a quandary regarding # of battens. I'm leaning toward 2 full upper and 2 partial lower battens. The North dealer suggests 4 full battens for longevity. I already have 4 full battens on my old retrofitted main and it's difficult to hoist at times (it's 60lbs).

Opinions?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 02-03-2011
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,966
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
We are in the same situation. I have just put the ok for a full batten (4) Main cross cut 8 oz Challenger High Modulus, 2 reefs, extra reinforced clews. Our sailing is very similar to yours as we take a three week vacation every summer and travel out of the Bay and up to New England. We also have the occasional race ( with our C&C we are somewhat competitive with other similar boats).

We are also buying the stong track tides system for the ease of hoisting/ lower the sail, especially since the extra weight will make it trend more resistance if not perfectly into the wind. Our current sailk was configured with 2 partial two full.

I would get a second quote from Quantum. The difference between my sail and the exact same one from North and UK was significant. I was able to get a discount on the tides system from them.

Feel free to PM me with our information ( price of both)

Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 02-03-2011
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,842
Thanks: 9
Thanked 75 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
If you're not actively racing, I'd go with 2+2

Id also include 2, maybe 3, sets of battens for the varied conditions that are on the Ches:
First set would be tapered 'soft' battens for light winds so that the max. draft occurs at about mid cord, especially for the top panels --- to power-up the head (shoulder) sections during the 'doldrum' conditions of July/August on the Ches.
Second set would be for spring fall sailing, a bit stiffer and tapered so that the draft sets a little more forward of the 'light' battens.
Optional Third set is for running off to New England ... stiff battens to depower the top/head/shoulder when sailing in the strong afternoon 'sea breezes' along the NJ/NE coast ... and for better sailing when deep reefed.

Other & Again, especially targeting offshore sailing - an over-the-top leech line system so that you can control the leech tension from the base of the mast, etc. but you'll have to go back to the 'other' thread for the other recommendations --- boltrope additions, etc. if you want a LONG-life sail, etc.

Cross-cut is fine - you can 'follow' the 'stretch', etc. better by set/shaping adjustments as the sail ages; not as 'heavy' as a radial, etc.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 02-03-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,695
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
I went with a 2+2 on my 30'r. Hoists just fine frankly.

Not sure if you have an Ullman loft near you, but they have a laminate panel sewn sails that cost wise compare to and slightly less than Norths crosscut. material is slightly lighter, which in light winds is nice, but it is stronger than dacron. Great pulling sail too, much better than dacron frankly.

I also went loose foot, much better for controling shape etc. Along with why I went with the 2+2 battens. I also have a light wt top batten for the under 7knot days here on puget sound in the summer, sometime I even leave the top one out! Then again, I have a slight overlap of the back stay too.

marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 02-04-2011
Sabreman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sabreman will become famous soon enough Sabreman will become famous soon enough
So fare we're evenly split between 2+2 and full battens. To summarize so far:

Full Battens:
PROS:
1. More overall sail stability as the sail ages
CONS:
1. A bit heavier
2. Lower panels are more difficult to reef/furl (As I know from personal experience)


2+2 Battens:
PROS:
1. Lighter
2. Easier reefing/furling due to less bulk and mass.
3. A bit more control when shaping the sail.
CONS:
1. Perhaps a bit less overall sail shape stability as the sail ages.


I'll add an over the top leech system to the sail. Adjusting the leech line when off the wind can be arduous. Thanks guys!
__________________
Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 02-04-2011
JimsCAL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 2,430
Thanks: 2
Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JimsCAL is on a distinguished road
Good summary. To the full batten option I'd add a bit more expensive and a bit harder to raise and lower.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 02-04-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post
Good summary. To the full batten option I'd add a bit more expensive and a bit harder to raise and lower.
But full batten mains drop so neatly into the lazyjacks.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 02-04-2011
Sabreman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sabreman will become famous soon enough Sabreman will become famous soon enough
Quote:
But full batten mains drop so neatly into the lazyjacks
I hate lazyjacks and took 'em off the boat when I bought it. To many strings and not enough benefit to offset the clutter. I grew up flaking a wide variety of sails and just couldn't see the benefit. Ick. But I'm not disparaging anyone with them, just not for me.
__________________
Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Extra large roach mainsail klubko Gear & Maintenance 32 11-14-2010 07:24 AM
adding roach AllThumbs Sailboat Design and Construction 28 10-10-2008 03:49 PM
mainsail roach, battens, weather helm, and mast placement stipakb Sailboat Design and Construction 10 09-08-2008 06:30 PM
Can a sail with too much roach be cut down without ruining It's shape? Sabre66 General Discussion (sailing related) 2 05-29-2007 07:43 PM
Roach or not mainemandean Gear & Maintenance 26 01-05-2007 01:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:57 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.