Another take on " old school " nav.

[dmchose]

I didn't see the need to further hijack the thread on CN. Here Walt Shults of the " Shannon Boats " fame gives his opinion on some things..
Boating issues answered by Walt Schulz
Course my father who had Loran A then C, who was an avid Pilot and Boat captain trusted only his DR & RD. To this day he amazed me by his knowlege of his boat or plane and his on the spot DR. Many times he would cut the R.P.Ms start the recorder and say "drop the hook" within a few minutes time. We were on the wreck.. 45 miles out from the sea bouy.

[LinekinBayCD]

He is right on about every boat having a plotter or parallel rules, dividers and a spare compass. I carry of them all except for the dividers. However, I can't imagine anyone would take a large boat like the schooner he mentioned offshore with only two GPS chartplotters and forget extra batteries. I have a 30 footer and carry three, a fixed mount hardwired, a "transportable" that runs off of a 12v plug if it is not charged and a handheld that uses AA batteries or a 12v plug. I carry plenty of spare batteries in spite of my wife's protestation about having too many batteries. Also carry on board a 12v cigarette type plug that has leads that clip right to a battery. I don't know if he was headed in or out of the Penobscott. At least there a a few good harbors that are easy to find in spite of navigational problems.

[Ulladh]

For the true hardcore take a look at Marvin Creamer index circumnavigated without compass, sextant or any electronic aid.

[Boasun]

Before there were GPS, Loran, and RDF. On overcast days we went by the shaft revolutions at end of watch for distance covered. They still haven't developed a Cloud Splitter for the Sextant... Dang it!!

Rev. X Prop pitch X slippage / 6080 = distance.

Use to do this when I sailed with Military Sealift Command on their ships. You'll be surprised on how close that distance was to Celestial, Pilotage and today's electronics. Many times it was right on top of my DR/fix. There are varilance of that formula for determining; Slippage, RPMs needed for desired speed and so forth.

I know that our "Modern" boats don't have shaft counters... But maybe we should!? Many of my "old" skills has keep me out of trouble many times. Where depending on Today's GPS has shown to be a tad off by several hundred yards.

So I will stick to Coastal Piloting, Celestial and see challenge the GPS and see if we both agree... Have know a few Mates & Masters of yesteryears who have DR across the Pacific and arrived right where they were aiming for and as scheduled.

[travlineasy]

Boasun,

WOW! You must be older than I am, and my daughter says I'm older than rocks because they were around long before dirt. Counting shaft revs was something that began, if my history serves me correctly, when paddle wheel powered boats were invented. It was pretty easy to count the revs on the shaft of a 1-cylinder engine, which is what most of the early steam engines were.

I've never been off a couple hundred yards with the GPS or Loran-C, but maybe that's because I calibrated the GPS regularly, which is required to provide repeatable accuracy. I know a lot of sailors that have never cracked the GPS user's manual, which is where you'll find the calibration information.

I wish I could still DR the way I was able to do as a kid, but those days are long gone--along with my eyesight. As the saying goes, aging isn't for wimps and sissies!

Cheers,

Gary

[Boasun]

Born in the first half of the last Century.... Not old, Just well aged like fine wine.

Had Loran place me 40 miles inland when I was off the coast of California. Even changing Loran Chains didn't help.
And I've told you about the GPS.
That is why I keep my Old timers skills honed sharp. Because it works when modern electronics would have ran my vessel aground.

[travlineasy]

WOW! Never had those problems with Loran-C. Once though, when a thunderstorm unexpectedly rolled in and I was fishing for bluefin tuna at the 26 Mill Hill out of Chincoteague, VA, the interference from the storm caused the Loran-C to just drop dead. A message appeared on the screen saying NO SIGNAL! I was a bit worried as those black clouds came rolling in from the southwest, and we were fishing from the deck of a 21-foot Proline center console boat powered with a 150-HP Yamaha outboard. After quickly retrieving the anchor and tying everything down, I looked at the Loran, which still held my last position before dropping dead, fired up the engine and headed for the inlet using the compass and my eyeballs alone. Anyone that has ever entered Chincoteague Inlet can tell you that it's not a fun entrance in the midst of a thunder-boomer. When we approached the coast all you could see were breakers, sand dunes and sheets of lightning. Figuring that the wind had likely pushed me a bit too far north, I turned south, ran along the beach for about a half-mile, and the inlet came into view through the deluge. What a beautiful sight. Just after reaching the launch ramp at Captain Bob's the storm slammed us hard. The boat was quickly tied up and we waited out the blow for about an hour and sipped on a cold Bud. That was my one and only Loran-C failure. Fortunately, the compass and DR came through.

Cheers from another guy born in the first part of the last century,

Gary

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Boasun

Born in the first half of the last Century.... Not old, Just well aged like fine wine.

Had Loran place me 40 miles inland when I was off the coast of California. Even changing Loran Chains didn't help.
And I've told you about the GPS.
That is why I keep my Old timers skills honed sharp. Because it works when modern electronics would have ran my vessel aground.

LORAN was always problematical in California because of the proximity of the mountains to the coast. In the mid-80's we had a Sitex 787C that worked great when we were in the Channel Islands and could verify our positions with LOP's and enter Lat/Lon corrections. Upon returning to Long Beach, however, the closer to the coast, the less accurate. (There we learned to follow bottom contours.) The same system in Southwest Florida was accurate within about 100 yards of our WASS enabled GPS. Our new (old) boat came with a RayNav 550 and that too was accurate, within about 50 yards of our GPS or less (in SoFla not SoCal).)

FWIW...

[travlineasy]

I used the Raynav 550 as well, mainly along the east coast from Delaware to Marquesses Keys, FL and the repeatable accuracy was about 60 feet, which was exactly what the manufacturer claimed. It was a great, user-friendly machine.

Gary

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by travlineasy

I used the Raynav 550 as well, mainly along the east coast from Delaware to Marquesses Keys, FL and the repeatable accuracy was about 60 feet, which was exactly what the manufacturer claimed. It was a great, user-friendly machine.

Gary

Gary... Our RayNav was also good to about 20 yards but when I say that no one seems to believe me so I use the lesser figure to avoid skepticism. The loss of such a good system at the hands of the Obamanation for no valid reason was a real crime (IMHO).

FWIW...