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Somali Piracy - what is the answer??

8K views 52 replies 30 participants last post by  VetMike 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok, putting all chest beating aside.....I am interested in thoughtful responses on what people REALLY think is a practical/realistic/workable approach to again allowing shipping and yachts to transit in the Gulf of Aden/North Indian Ocean???

I am NOT just after calls for action.....idealism.....or Rambo style "blow up all the baddies with big ships with big guns" responses...

Ladies and gentlemen, How do we as sailors in an international community in 2011 think this issue can be resolved swiftly and effectively, while negotiating the legal/political/military/humanitarian issues involved??

Ideally it would be sorted within the next couple of years, so that by the time I am up to a circumnavigation I don't get shot at trying to get to all that nice food and wine in the Med :) :)

The idea of going around one of those pesky Cape things holds no appeal for me.

(It might also be prudent to be careful with any political statements here, in an effort to avoid this thread being moved into the sewer for as long as possible...... :) :) )
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Chall--

It doesn't have a solution that is swift or effective. Until there is a functioning government in Somalia, there will be no cost-effective way for the international community to protect small boats that are stupid enough to venture into range of the pirates.

Arming the boats doesn't make much sense, since the pirates are likely to be more heavily armed and most sailboats aren't robustly enough constructed, outside of Alchemy's tank like beast, to resist gunfire of any sort to any degree.
 
#12 ·
Until there is a functioning government in Somalia, there will be no cost-effective way for the international community to protect small boats that are stupid enough to venture into range of the pirates.
I couldn't agree more. This all started when foreign fishing fleets, mainly European and Asian, laid waste to the coastal fisheries of Somalia. They did so with impunity, as there was no effective Somali government to either physically or diplomatically confront them . Then Somali fishermen started taking things into their own hands, attacking foreign-flagged fishing vessels, and eventually any foreign vessels. Again, without an effective Somali government there was nothing to stop them from doing so. Fairly quickly the Somalis turned to out-right piracy, as it was much more profitable than fishing for non-existent fish. Now, it appears that war-lords have taken over much of the piracy, or at least are a big part of the "administration" of it. Ironically, the fisheries are probably recovering nicely, since foreign fishing vessels don't dare get anywhere close to the Somali coast anymore.

If Somalia can form an effective government, with an effective Coast Guard or Navy, the piracy will disappear in short order. Short of a forced occupation of the entire country, that is just about the only way it's going to end.
 
#4 ·
Never an eazy answer for real problems ....IMO take out Motherships first and then Blockade the harbors until all prisoners are released , then offer a bounty for masterminds of the op's .

It would help to find something the somilies could offer in trade with other natitions to get thier economy going , not all somilies are pirates ...

Serious Have Not is the root of these kind of problems , clean water at the tap and ele for a few hours a day would go a long way to peacefull coexistence...
 
#5 ·
Violence

First - establish a policy of paying no ransoms under any circumstances. If you pay for something, you get more of it. This will reduce the motivation.

Second - give captured pirates drumhead courts-martial aboard naval vessels and hang those who are convicted immediately.

Third - burn their bases ashore.

Forth - invade and occupy Somalia, and install a functioning government.
 
#6 ·
Stop the paid ransoms = stop the pirates. Pirating occurs for one reason and one reason only: money.

Stopping ransom payments either means hostages will suffer or cruisers/merchants must avoid the Indian Ocean all together. This is much easier said than done and is the crux of the issue.

Maybe if there was some oil under Somalia we could find a quick solution?
 
#15 ·
Stop the paid ransoms = stop the pirates. Pirating occurs for one reason and one reason only: money.

Stopping ransom payments either means hostages will suffer or cruisers/merchants must avoid the Indian Ocean all together. This is much easier said than done and is the crux of the issue.
You said a mouthful there. The problem is that it isn't governments that are making ransom payments. It's corporations wanting to avoid the hardship and drama of having employees murdered in the Indian Ocean; it's families who empty their bank accounts to try to get loved ones back. It makes perfect sense to us sitting comfortably at home, but when your father or daughter or brother comes up on some grainy video at gunpoint in some God-forsaken village in Somalia, it must be hard to justify not paying the ransom. Similarly, the bottom line for a large multinational shipping corporation is that it's cheaper to pay X million dollars to these creeps than to lose a ship, its cargo, and its crew.

I do know one thing that absolutely is not going to solve it, and that's bringing the pirates to court. Doesn't matter if it's US military court or US criminal court or UN court or municipal court in Walla Walla, WA. It is totally ineffectual. Hanging/Keel-hauling them on the spot isn't going to be an instant cure-all either, but it (a) reduces the number of potential and actual pirates by one each time you do it, (b) may (or may not) act as a deterrent to potential pirates, and (c) makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole thing. It does make it a war of attrition, though, and that's a God-awful mess.

Stopping the ransom money? Sounds good, if you can make it happen. But this namby-pamby slap-on-the-wrist "diplomatic talks" route is for the birds.
 
#7 · (Edited)
'Q' ships & Yachts, heavily armed and willing to take on all comers.
Remember 'Q' Ships were innocent looking ships until you got well in range of their guns. They sunk a lot of ships during WWI & WWII. Now they should be imployed in hunting the pirates.
And imploy Spy drones and Satellites to ferret out the mother ships and skiffs.
 
#8 ·
Just how do they recognize pirates as opposed to legitimate fishermen. Or may be we should adopt this approach.

Arnaud (or Arnau) Amalric (died 1225) was a Cistercian monk remembered for giving advice during the Albigensian Crusade to a soldier wondering how to distinguish the Catholic friendlies from the Cathar enemies to just "Kill them all. For the Lord knows them that are His."
 
#9 ·
Boasun,

You've hit the nail on the head. Keep in mind that technique worked extremely well for Germany during WW-I and WW-II, and I recently read an article about a single boat that was responsible for sinking more than 130 merchant vessels while flying the flags of various, neutral nations. The guns were all hidden behind fake cargo containers that were lowered when the other ships were within range. We use a similar technique in the U.S. to catch auto thieves--bait cars. They look like a great prize for car thieves, but once inside the car and moving down the highway, the car's doors are locked, the engine shut down and it's all done by remote control. Inside the vehicle there is a hidden camera that captures all activity and conversations taking place in the stolen vehicle. I believe a couple weeks or months of Q-ship activity along the Somalian coast would go a long way to solve this problem. Granted, someone will cry foul, mainly in the name of political correctness, but can guarantee that those yelling the loudest
will be politicians that wouldn't set foot on Somalia without a heavily armed escort.

Gary :cool:
 
#13 ·
Any belief in this problem being solved without collateral damage is naive and counter productive. So firstly I fully agree with the philosophy of no ransom. All western governments have for decades held the view of not negotiating with terrorists and then these people get paid obscene amounts of money.

So my first move would be to blow the 300 000 ton oil tanker that is being held off their shoreline. That will provide them with a little alternative interest for a period. Then, once the tanker has done its work, systematically sink every other ship anchored there and the message will soon enough get through that we don't care that they have foreign ships under their control and that when they take the next one their headache will not improve.

I would probably have a rather different opinion of this if my son was the first engineer on the tanker.
 
#14 ·
It may be useful to consider that ransom is only one goal of most 'pirates'. Consider that a cockpit winch from a 30' boat could sell for about 3 years salary for the average Somalian.

Just taking the sails and making a water catch basin isn't a bad approach, for instance. What would we suppose a halyard can be traded for to a guy who needs to reinforce his fishing nets? Or those fancy electronics sold across the boarder to all the rich folks in Kenya...

There is a lot more going on than just capturing white people. It's just that the captured white people are a lot more interesting to talk about than the other stuff.

Piracy doesn't start or stop with killing people. At least, it hasn't yet.
 
#16 ·
It is all well and good to say don't pay ransoms......and most governments have a policy of NOT paying ransoms, but how do you stop individuals/private firms and organizations from paying ransoms???

Especially when in the majority of cases, the ransoms do actually lead to the realease of the hostages??? If someone I cared about became a hostage, and I had reason to believe that a wad of cash would get them released then why wouldn't I pay???
 
#20 · (Edited)
I am interested in thoughtful responses on what people REALLY think is a practical/realistic/workable approach to again allowing shipping and yachts to transit in the Gulf of Aden/North Indian Ocean???
This is opinion only (obviously!)

I don't think the solution is that quick.
You Americans can put your guns away as that isn't on your Foreign Policy and won't happen.

That third of Somalia is lawless and the long term solution is stabilising a government there. Unfortunately it will be a fundamentalist Islamic government. 'Unfortunate'... thats just our 'view' of a lack of separation of powers.

Until then I think what we are doing is slowly begining to show dividends.
19 captured/killed with the 4 dead Americans is a good outcome purely on the numbers.
Every pirate killed or captured will show them its better to go back to fishing or to surrender when a navy ship approaches. I daresay the US ship offered the pirates a very amiable resettlement in the USA if they had given up. I'm sure thats what was happening when the hostages were shot.

The 'don't pay ransoms' philosophy is the correct one, however its the insurance companies that have been paying out - They don't care how much they pay out, nor how much the premiums go up as they just benefit from the extra profit on the increased premium at their same margin.

As large companies like MSC (who must be Self-Insurers due to their size) start to bring out their own patrol boats, and force Insurance companies to do the same, and assist in their own dilemma it will aid the navy's ability.

One must remember that piracy is NOT a local thing: Its Al Qaeda or similar. Bombing local fishing communities will not help. Its organised crime - not a few dumb-bum fishermen now rich beyond their wildest dreams who inexplicably keep on doing it though richer than all their country-mates.

The only military action that could be useful is small level incursions to rescue hostages/ships. But the loss of hostages lives would be significant. It hasn't been tried yet. Targeted executions have worked in a number of countires by the USA, Russians, Isralies etc

The oxymoron in my statements is that if Al Qaeda is involved to the degree that I think they are then any new government (Of Puntlannd, not the whole of Somalia. Somalia will be disected into 3 parts) there will be pro-pirate. But new governments quickly learn they have to toe the world line.... Though a country can do without money or aid or government is understandable, but a Government can't do without money, aid or an economy :)

So for the next 2 or 3 years yachts should have a look at Captain Cook's routes from Batavia to the Cape of Good Hope.

Mark
 
#22 · (Edited)
The thing is that the Somalian pirate situation is not going to go away until the insurance companies decide that the ships + cargoes are not worth the ransom.

The crew ? Perlease. That requires a degree of compassion and somehow 'insurance company' and 'compassion' do not sit well together. Throw 'pirates' into the mix and its lay down misere.
 
#23 ·
All kidding aside, for us the only real solution is to forget the Med-Suez-Aden route. The round the cape, up to Durban and then off to Australia route looks better all the time.
 
#27 ·
"What's needed is an international force with boots on the ground, but not on the scale of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those commitments of money, time and blood have worn on the U.S. and its allies. Neither should the U.S. attempt a reprise of its 1993 foray into Mogadishu.
Instead, teams of small, elite forces, such as our own Green Berets, Britain's Special Air Service and Russia's Spetsnaz GRU, should be sent in to oust the warlords in targeted, coordinated attacks.
Such groups specialize in reconnaissance, counterterrorism, unconventional warfare and hostage rescue. Nimble, stealthy units would be less costly to support, and their operations could be augmented by naval air power.
The next step, far more daunting, is restoring a functioning Somali government. But first, let's dislodge these criminals and make the region safe again for shipping.
This has been a time of change for northern Africa. It should be Somalia's turn now."

EDITORIAL: Solution to Somali piracy: Eliminate the warlords - Bakersfield.com
 
#28 ·
When predicting the course of human events, the very best strategy is always to "follow the money". At some point, the cost of piracy to insurers and/or shipping companies will become so great as to force a solution. This will most likely take the form of military action, ie. "kill the pirates". Independent yachtsmen can do nothing except wait for this outcome. In the meantime, if there's bears in the woods, I ain't in the woods no more. Simple as that.

Mike
 
#35 · (Edited)
Couple of points for thought. I've mentioned most in other threads on this topic.

The US vs. Somalia is like the NFL vs. Popwarner. We could invade and stop this in less than 30 days. However, we have to remain there for years until they could govern their own country.

80% of their citizens are illiterate!! That's not exaggeration to make a point, that's the level. It would take more than a generation to fix that.

This isn't a question of how, we have many solutions to.... how. This is a question of priority and whether you are willing to make this one. Many of the nuclear bomb button pushers are the same people that sit in Starbucks after we've invaded and want our troops to come home.

Finally, think about those that settled the wild west in the US. Virtually to a person, they all lived in poverty. Their solution (in total) was not crime. There is more to their motivation in Somalia than poverty. Discuss among yourselves.......... :)
 
#40 ·
WTF ?? Really !!!
The very people that it may effect , the Sailing Community, cannot even come to a concensous. I don't know how many of you have been involved with these type of people, but they would have have no compunctions about slitting your throat and sending you to the " Locker ". The average person cannot fathom just exactly what kind of murderous animals these " pirates " are. Remember, these types of people DO NOT place that same value on human life as you do. I was drafted, sent to Vietnam and became familiar with the " locals " in an intimate way. I quickly came to think of the
M60 & M79 as my close personal friends. I do not condone nor will I suggest that any offensive tatics should be taken by private individuals. That being said, if you cannot or will not embrace the reasons to obtain the hardware and aquire the skills to use that hardware to at least be in a good defensive position ... STAY AWAY FROM THAT AREA. If a coalition was formed to set up a good defensive position and starve the animals that are hunting you, their chances of survival will dwindle to nothing. BTW, isn't Xe still in business?

It is better to have and not need .. than to need and not have.
 
#42 ·
Interesting thread with a lot great points.

Can someone reiterate the legal situation in international waters? It isn't a lawless zone. If a military vessel captures suspected pirates, where is the appropriate jurisdiction for bringing them to trial?

If a private vessel defends itself in international waters, is it subject to the laws of the country in which it is flagged?

Would arming commercial vessels (or putting military units on board) provide enough deterrence over time? If pirates lose too many boats or men, they will have a harder time recruiting. Even if the defensive capability is enough to prevent capture of a ship, that means loss of time, material, and resources to the pirates for no gain. Would making it less profitable in that way reduce the incentive?
 
#47 ·
It isn't a lawless zone. If a military vessel captures suspected pirates, where is the appropriate jurisdiction for bringing them to trial?
I'm not sure. People have been prosecuted in a number of countires: USA and Denmark, but mainly Kenya. But the Kenyans wanted to stop having to be the prosecutors but were pleaded with by the West and have started up again. So I thinks its got something to do with countries local to the incidents; the origin of the navy's involved; and the country of origin of the pirates.
More like the country with the ability to bring the charges.

Someone else should know.

If a private vessel defends itself in international waters, is it subject to the laws of the country in which it is flagged?
I don't think the flagged country, normally. I thought it was the next country you stop at you need to report incidents and they are ment to investigate.
Certanly the laws of a flagged country can't be exclusivly held as that would be called extraterritoriality it would need to be international law.

I sure as hell wouldn't be reporting I shot 6 pirates when docking in Djabouti, Sudan or Egypt. You wouldn't be hear from again!

Would arming commercial vessels (or putting military units on board) provide enough deterrence over time?
As I understand it commercial vessels can't carry weapons because too many ports refuse them entry. A cargo ship has to be able to go anywhere. So none have guns.

Maybe someone on here is a lawyer with international law experience? Just give us 3 minutes of your time and send your $10,000 bill to Sailnet.com! ;)

Mark
 
#43 ·
Minnewaska,
Yeah that givin' it back thing was tough. There are a number of links that a good search engine will get you to the place you seek. type in m.... gu...
They are legal to purchase and own. There is a dog and pony show to attend, after which a 1/2 mile of hoops must be jumped through. But it's
possible.
I own a Barret M82A1 among other toys. Brings back memories, some good others bad.

It's better to have and not need ... than to need and not have
 
#44 ·
Minnewaska,
Yeah that givin' it back thing was tough. There are a number of links that a good search engine will get you to the place you seek. type in m.... gu...
Truthfully, not all that practical for me anymore. While I'm sure the weapon performs the same as always, I'm getting too old for it.

Though, it does remind of the song.... I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was.....
 
#45 ·
dhays,
Good point about the legalities of international waters, and the question of lawlessness in those waters.
I would also be interested in the finer points of the laws that appearantly cannot be enforced by the Nations of the World, or not.
While those laws are obviously unenforceable doesn't that make it incumbent upon us to seek coucil with our peers and take the appropriate actions to protect ourselves from the human hyenas that seek to do us wrong?
My personal answer is, Most Definitely.
I would defend me and mine with extreme prejudice until the threat was neutralized.
All lawlessness should be treated as such.
I maintain situal awareness at all times when sailing. That rule applies to all aspects of my life, some times more than others.

It's better to have and not need ... than to need and not have
 
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