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Broker ??

3K views 15 replies 13 participants last post by  rikhall 
#1 ·
We are anticipating buying a 40 ft sailboat next year at this time. We are new to all this and learning as fast as we can. Now, I've read one should have a broker to help you buy a boat.. They supposedly help with legalities, etc. So, how does one get a reliable broker ? How much might one cost and are they really necessary ? Any info, would be appreciated. Thank you,
 
#2 ·
Since you are SO new, an experienced,Honest yacht broker that has your interests in mind could be very helpful. But, broker is earning off of your purchase. Since it your 1st sailboat it may be difficult to Know what you really want and need for your purposes. Depending on your budget, you might try the "Personal Shopper" approach like Mahina web site. You take seminars and --pay someone- to help you purchase a sailboat. A broker may have a more limited amount of boats for purchase.... EVERYBODY who helps you will be an Expert (in their own mind) and will have opinions exactly opposite of the other Experts. Extreme Self-education,test sails and paid or unpaid help is good. (as you will see others on sailnet will tell you I'm all wrong)
 
#3 ·
Get a Broker

Would you buy a house without a real estate agent? I suppose some might, but I wouldn't. And the same goes for brokers with me.

We met out broker 3 years before we actually used him to buy a boat. I would go to all the boat shows in my area (still do even though we just boat a new boat). After a couple of times talking to the brokers at the shows, you get the impression as to who are the good guys and who are the used car salesmen.

This guy spent a lot of time with me talking about the boats he represents. He also talked about the boats he didn't represent but not in a negative way. He represents Island Packets, Catalina and Juneau. But he had some good things to say about Hunters and Beneteaus. So I came to value his opinion because he didn't just try to talk up his product.

I told him upfront that I wasn't looking to buy anytime soon. He was fine with that, still spent time going over the different boats, talking about sailing, etc.

So when it came time to buy, we went to him and talked about what we were looking for. He helped locate some boats to look at (I was obsessed with surfing Yatchworld and the other sites almost nightly). He went with us to look at the boats and helped point out good and bad points of the various boats.

When we found a boat we liked, he was able to talk broker to broker with the listing guy and get some information that helped us either pass on that boat or make an offer. He was also able to recommend surveyors, insurance agents, finance agents, etc. that ended up giving way better prices then what we had going in.

All of this and it cost us nothing out of pocket. Boat brokers are just like real estate agents. They take a percentage from the seller and if there is a buyer broker and seller broker, they split the commission.

Hope this helps.

What area of the country are you looking in by the way?
 
#4 ·
I do think you can find a good, honest broker, but be careful. They are typically paid by splitting the commission with the seller's broker.

If you can do enough research to narrow your desire down to a particular manufacturer, I recommend find a broker at your local dealer for that make. They may be the most knowledgeable, both in terms of what to analyze and what is available, and you've established a good relationship for when you own the boat.
 
#5 ·
"So, how does one get a reliable broker ? "
Easy, just like buy fine spouse! <G>

Brokers are not necessary, however, a good one will work their *ss off finding the boat you want, making sure the correct taxes are paid, helping you with paperwork, setting up an escrow account against problems if need be.

Normally the SELLER pays a commission to their broker, and the broker works for the SELLER, make no mistake about that. If you wish to engage a buyer's broker, you do it in writing with a contract, and they'll get a piece of the commission on the sale.

It is not common to use a buyer's broker, but you get one the same way you get that fine spouse: Ask around for recomendations in your area. Check the BBB listings for complaints on them.

And ber in mind, most brokers don't ask a lot of questions, and guaranty nothing about a boat. You'll also be needing recommendations for a good surveyor, wherever the boat is. Preferably one that the selling broker doesn't like, because he takes a hard look at problems.<G>
 
#6 ·
Boat brokers get paid when you buy a boat. This goes for buyer's brokers, as well as seller's brokers.

I worked with a lot of brokers, and looked at some FSBO boats too. I always took what the brokers said with a grain (or two) of salt, and considered their motivation.

One of the best places to check your facts is right here. Post questions, and pictures of boats (or components of boats), and you will get opinions from a lot of very knowledgeable people.

But, be very careful not to post info that is too specific, or you may end up offending someone that you don't want to offend, or worse, having the boat bought out from under you. I always tried to write my posts so that they did not include specific information about a specific potential deal.
 
#8 ·
Hello and Welcome.

Where are you located? Perhaps one of the members who is located near you will be able to recommend a good broker. Personally, since I am a DIY kind of guy, I didn't bother with a buyers broker but just used the seller's broker. IMHO, don't bother trying to buy a boat from a bad broker, too much heart ache. Deal with a good broker (you'll be able to tell the difference after you meet with a few brokers) and you will be happy.

Good luck,
Barry
 
#11 ·
I didn't bother with a buyers broker but just used the seller's broker. IMHO, don't bother trying to buy a boat from a bad broker, too much heart ache. Deal with a good broker (you'll be able to tell the difference after you meet with a few brokers) and you will be happy.
Speaking as a former broker, that experience is pretty typical. We did it ourselves when we bought our boat in 2009. Further, while a listing broker may be happy to work a broker from his/her own company, in BC they have been reluctant to work with brokers from competing companies. My experience as both a broker and then a buyer is that working with just the selling broker keeps things straightforward.

I don't mind trusting that broker because as a buyer, I am going to get a surveyor that I trust. My advice for selecting both a broker and a surveyor is to get references from people who you respect and trust.

Finally, you can help the broker find you the right boat by telling him/her:

  • What type of sailing you will be doing - i.e.day sailing, racing or cruising.
  • How many people will typically be on the boat.
  • What kind of budget you are working with - this may seem like giving too much info, but if you follow my earlier advice, you will have been referred. It can speed up the search by eliminating boats that you don't want or can't afford.
Good luck with your search.
 
#10 ·
I was in your shoes one year ago. Following the advice of a friend/boat owner I use a buyer's broker. In the end that's a fine plan if you need your hand held. If however you are reasonably self sufficient there is little that you cannot do better than a broker if you are smart, diligent, and have a computer connection. The problem with a broker is that their job is to get you to buy a boat or else they don't get paid. Think what you want but it is a conflict of interest should your desire be getting the best boat for you.

I liked our broker but once I released him our boat search dramatically improved. I would not use a broker again.

Chris
 
#12 · (Edited)
If you are able to do a private mesage to me - I will tell you with whom I bought a boat in 2008. I highly recommend him. He may have been paid by the seller - but he sure worked hard for me!

Also - telling us if you are looking at a Swan 52 or a Tanzer 22 would give us a few hints.

Rik
 
#14 ·
On our last boat purchase every broker that had a boat listed that I was interested in turned out to be a real A**H***! (Can you say Kemah?) I finally enlisted the help of a broker I had worked with in the past to represent me. We got exactly the boat we wanted and with his help managed to get the price down by almost 20%!
A buyers broker doesn't have anything invested in advertising the boat or anything else. He won't make money unless you are happy! It's great motivation to do a good job. I arranged in advance to "tip" my broker 10% of the money he helped us get taken off the listing price. He not only split commission with the listing broker but got a very nice tip from me... The 10% bonus off the listing price was a great motivator for him to work at negotiating the price for us.....
 
#15 ·
some thoughts on buyers' brokers

[...] He won't make money unless you are happy! It's great motivation to do a good job. [...]
I have limited experience (having purchased one boat only, so far), alas I'd like to propose some parallels with the real estate industry, that may be applicable here:

1. a broker - any broker - makes money only when a deal is closed. No deal - no money. Any deal is better than no deal.

2. a broker gets X% of the total deal value. Absent some custom 'tipping' arrangement, what exactly is a broker's motivation to try hard to depress the value of a deal (= lower the price), possibly risking the deal falling apart?

3. Time is money. Ten deals per month are better than two deals per month. Higher-value deals are better than lower-value deals. For a sales professional optimizing revenue, what exactly is the motivation to chase your perfect boat over potentially many months, over a 'just good enough' boat quickly?

(#1 - #3 above combine to drive deal volume/time over buyer's quality/value)

4. If the boat market has any similarity to real estate, the listing (seller's) broker has little interest to work with a buyer's broker. Much better to work with a buyer directly, and avoid having to split the commission in half. (read: listing brokers will likely be more responsive to a buyer than to a buyer's broker).

5. A seller's broker is also motivated to 'close the deal' quickly, if possible, so s/he may be open to answer good questions and give you more background (within reason, of course), in the interest of driving the deal. I don't see why a broker-to-broker conversation would be vastly superior to a knowledgeable future owner armed with thorough research and tough questions? It's the buyer's money, after all ...

6. Unless one is looking for a boat in the <$10k price range, the vast majority of yachts will be listed online. It's simple, and buyers can use it without going through brokers. With only a little work on one's laptop, one can quickly narrow the search down to a single digit number of targets.

And, finally ...

7. For most of us, there likely is no 'perfect boat' in the used boat market ... buying a boat is an emotional decision, with some level of (usually rather biased?) due diligence. What is the value of a 87% perfect boat right now, versus a 92% perfect boat next year?

8. Beyond the 'motivation' discussion above, people are people, and there will be all sorts of brokers ... some who love helping people, some who love boats, and others who just love the greenbacks ... Caveat emptor!
 
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