Beneteau First 40 compared to Wauquiez Centurion 40s

[Aac]

Greetings. I was overlaying the hull shapes of a Wauquiez Centurion 40s with other boats to see what it is similar to - as I own one and I wanted to see what it compares to.

The First 40 seem identical in profile and plan views. I did this simply using the diagrams given in the specifications.

My question: Is it a coincidence that two different models from two different manufactures seem so similar. The rigging is different but not too different to an untrained eye.

Anyone have an idea how the two would compare in performance handling.

Here are the specs: First 40, Centurion 40s

Length Overall (m) 12.58 12.55
Length Waterline (m) 10.67 11.1
Beam Max (m) 3.89 3.85
Draft (m) 2.45 2.35
Ballast (Kg) 3000 2760
Light Displacement (Kg) 7900 7600
Main Sail m^2 50 52
I (m) 16.5 15.69
J (m) 4.6 4.32
P (m) 16.11 15
E (m) 5.54 5.9

First 40 Specs at http://www.beneteau.com/UserFile/Fil...IRST_40_EN.pdf

Centurion 40 Specs at Download Download: Spec_C40s_07_2006.pdf - Untitled

Differences
First 40 has a 0.81m taller rig
First 40 has 0.1m more draft
First 40 has 240Kg more in the keel
First 40’s main has a higher aspect ratio but 2 square meters less
First 40’s has a higher aspect keel (ie. narrower keel)
First 40 mast is more aft
First 40 rudder is a little more forward

Here are the overlays:

1st Overlay with the First 40 opaque and on top


2nd Overlay with the First 40 a little transparent


3rdd Overlay with the First 40 a little more transparent again. Note the profiles seem identical


4th Overlay with the First 40 completely transparent leaving the Centurion 40s


Plan view Overlay
p1.BMP

[PCP]

You have a lot of work with that.

Yes, the First 40 and the Centurion 40s belong to the same "way" of designing a fast boat. If you look for instance for a Dufour 40e, you will find more beam and less ballast.

The Centurion 40s is a great and fast boat, specially for cruising even if it can do also well on club regattas. A fast cruiser with a good interior.

The First CR you have posted is a slightly more powerful boat than the Centurion, with more ballast and more righting moment even if has a bit more weight. The profile of both boats are very similar but I doubt the entries and the bow design at the water level are the same. I think the First is more narrow and has slightly narrow entries.

But the First you see winning races is not the CR 40. The CR40 is a (failed) attempt to sell the First 40 as a cruising boat. It is only on the market since last year and has many differences to the true First 40:

the "fast" First has a cored hull (the CR is monolithic), it weights less it has a bigger mast and a bigger sail area (99m2). The racing main has 56.3m2.

Regards

Paulo

[Aac]

Thanks Paulo; didnt notice the CR.

I think the relative aft placement of First 40 mast is to allow for a larger blade jib for pointing. The Centurion being a Cruiser-Racer probably has the mast further forwards to allow for a bigger main and an overlapping jib - #2 say - with the jib not meant to be changed often by Cruisers.

Anyway, the Centurion 40s was first built in 1998 (I think) and I find it interesting that 10 years later a very similar hull is being used on the First 40. These companies must be using the same finite element analysis software.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Aac

...

Anyway, the Centurion 40s was first built in 1998 (I think) and I find it interesting that 10 years later a very similar hull is being used on the First 40. These companies must be using the same finite element analysis software.

I believe the Centurion 40 is a 2003 boat (it was Sailing world boat of the year).The First 40 is a 2008 boat and many believe that Farr was not very innovative with it, particularly in the stern design that looks a bit outdated.

| Sailing World

But yes we can say that those hull lines lasted a lot more than what is usual in those days of fast changes, so much that they can be considered already a kind of classic type. For instance, the Salona 41 is not very far away from that pattern and the truth is that the First 40 and the Salona 41 are still top contenders in the regatta world.

Regards

Paulo

[chillwales]

Interesting comparison. I have a Centurion 40s which we have been actively racing in the Pacific NW. We didn't buy it to race, but we fell into that four years ago. Had I wanted an out and out racer, I would have bought something different. But the fact is, we do very well, particularly in distance races and 15 knots or more of wind. We have a lot of class wins in big races against good boats.

[Marilyng]

Hi Chillwales we have just purchased a 2005 Wauquiez Centurion 40s and would like to speak to owners for some advise. We would like to change our prop from a fixed to a 3 bladed flexofold and would like to know if there is a part number

[blt2ski]

Originally Posted by Marilyng

Hi Chillwales we have just purchased a 2005 Wauquiez Centurion 40s and would like to speak to owners for some advise. We would like to change our prop from a fixed to a 3 bladed flexofold and would like to know if there is a part number

The last tie Chillwales posted was the date of above, and has not logged in since august either. With that in mind, his boat name I believe is "Different Drummer". Not sure what a search will do, but he does fairly well racing here in the NW! He has a phrf of 81, which puts him in competition with some well sailed lighter smaller boats.

As a comparison, while there are not 1st 40's listed as racing in the local directory, some of the older 40.7's have a rating of 57 and 60, so roughly 20-24 secs a mile faster. Not sure how much faster a 1st 40 is in comparison to a 40.7. I believe faster, but how much per mile.......

marty

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Marilyng

Hi Chillwales we have just purchased a 2005 Wauquiez Centurion 40s and would like to speak to owners for some advise. We would like to change our prop from a fixed to a 3 bladed flexofold and would like to know if there is a part number

Congratulations. That's a great cruising boat. You can ask directly to wauquiez, they still make the boat, now with a 2 wheel setup.

Regards

Paulo

[Splendide]

Hi Marylin,
We have a 40S 2006 with Volvo three blade folding prop. Works very good!. make sure its the correct direction (The Volvo is left turn, the Yanmar i don't know).
In addition to the Story: the Centurion 40S is built heavier than the the first brochure. Our 40s is over 9 tons of weight with teak decks, shallow keel and electric winches. Despite the extra weight, she is fast, especially downwind. In the beat we suffer the shallow keel...

Regards
Gert Jan

[Aac]

Interesting Girt

I did a quick search and in some cases I find a dry weight of 8600 Kg and in others 7600; ie. here

The same as Sailing World here which has "At 16,755 pounds and with this long waterline, this Centurion 40s is proportionally lighter than other racer cruisers although still no ultra-light. Ballast makes up 36 percent of this displacement and the low center of gravity bulb type keel helps keep this boat on its feet when the breeze is up."

Checking on the Wauquiez site I see 8600Kg dry weight for the new 40S.2; so I guess you are right according to the source.

I must say I am surprised as the weight minus the keel comes out at 4800 Kg for the case of a dry weight of 7600Kg. Dont know where the extra 1000Kg is; is it all fiber glass or is Wauquiez trying to sell the boat as blue water cruiser somehow with a little exaggeration.