2 dead, 8 injured in sailboat sinking - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbee View Post
After all, 1200 lbs is still 1200 lbs, whether it's water or lead.
That's a bit misleading, since it's not weight that rights the boat, but moment, and 1200 lbs just below the waterline is not 1200 four feet below the waterline.

In this case it's a moot point since it probably wasn't in use and the ballast system was not designed for such capacity anyway.

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post #62 of 113 Old 03-29-2011 Thread Starter
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If you're interested in the location of the ballast in this boat, reference this: DRAWINGS

Permanent ballast: 300lbs
Water ballast: 1150lbs
Boat weight, empty: 2550lbs
Boat weight, ballasted: 3700lbs

If ballasted, the passengers would account for ~30% total displacement (assuming 150lbs x 10 persons = 1500lbs)

If unballasted, the passengers would account for ~40% total displacement.

If you do the math for passenger weight vs total displacement ... their loading would be equivalent to 27 passengers (ballasted) and 40 passengers (unballasted) on a 10,000lbs displacement boat ... and that 10,000lbs boat would still have its ballast hanging much lower in the water.

This boat wasn't just a "few people overloaded" ... it was grossly overloaded. I'm not normally a proponent of legal action but someone showed gross negligence in this case.

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post #63 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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mdbee-
My only reference is my Hunter. It has the wingnut like you describe. I loosen it and push down on the rod, get a "thunk" and water starts coming in up to a point. From looking at pictures, it might have a little bit of a recess around the valve on the hull.

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Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
That's a bit misleading, since it's not weight that rights the boat, but moment, and 1200 lbs just below the waterline is not 1200 four feet below the waterline.

In this case it's a moot point since it probably wasn't in use and the ballast system was not designed for such capacity anyway.

Of course. Just like a 3' leaded keel is not a 6 foot bulb keel. It is still difficult to capsize a water ballast boat with the tank full.

This post is made from recycled electrons

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post #64 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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If you're interested in the location of the ballast in this boat, reference this: DRAWINGS
...
That's an M26M, MacGregor's current model, not the boat in question, an M26S or M26D.

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post #65 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
Put another way, you wouldn't expect to improve stability by opening a through-hull and letting seawater slosh around your cabin sole.
Good explanation. While letting water slosh around would add weight, it would not add any righting moment, as it would just settle into the lowest part of a heeled hull. Hence "taping" the little water bottle to the hull.

It seems to me, due to its relatively low density, water is a rather poor ballasting agent, except for the fact its cheap, readily availiable, and easily off-loaded for trailering.
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post #66 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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What sucks is that this organization seems like it's made up of really good people. Free sails to these kids and their families - only asking for donations to cover expenses.

One bad call out of many, many sails - and disaster happens.

As for the boat - how does the water ballasting work? Is there one tank? Two? Judging by that pic, that was a very unstable boat from the get-go.
From looking at the website and the number of scheduled trips listed I can't help but think that their "might" be a bit of scam going on.

Set up a non-profit, put together a good story including how safety on the water is chief concern, solicit sponsorships from companies and other non-profits as well as over the internet.

Take out non-paying passengers to avoid Coast Guard regulations and then solicit suggested donations to the non-profit from the passengers.

The whole emphasis in the literature on sailing the boat but with the 2 hour intervals between trips how much sailing actually occurs.

Its a non-profit but the "captain" charges the non-profit a significant fee for his services which ends being accounted as just one of the expenses for directly providing the services. On paper it looks like the non-profit is spending a high amount of its donations on providing the services it advertises but a significant amount goes directly to the captain.

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post #67 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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Here is some news just in.
Boat operator blames wind gust for fatal capsize - SignOnSanDiego.com

The operator seems to think a gust of wind caused the accident, which may be a little true but with 10 people on board and no ballast I feel that a small ripple could have made it go over.


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post #68 of 113 Old 03-29-2011 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
That's an M26M, MacGregor's current model, not the boat in question, an M26S or M26D.
Worth mentioning is that ... LWL, beam, displacement, ballast, LOA, freeboard, draft, etc are very similar so for the purpose of referencing an available line drawing to illustrate what a 26' water ballasted MacGregor looks like ... that suits more than adequately. I would have to be a MacGregor enthusiast to be convinced of substantive difference between them all.

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Last edited by scraph; 03-29-2011 at 10:18 PM.
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post #69 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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MY favorite comment on the bottom of that story:

i would never take a sailboat out in the wind. too dangerous!!
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post #70 of 113 Old 03-29-2011
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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
If indeed it was a rental, hard to imagine it was legit, or in full compliance with CA or local regs...

The boat shows a home port and state registration numbers from New Jersey, coupled with an expiration sticker from Indiana...

From a series of pics of the boat by DA-WOODY over on Sailing Anarchy...


WAIT?

The numbers say NJ but the reg says Indiana?
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