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  #51  
Old 04-10-2011
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Participation is my mantra! I'm discouraged by uninformed conspiracy theorists. We are the decission makers, not the victims! Our government is driven by participation not fear. If environmentalist gain influence by participation, that's proper. There's much to worry about, but not democracy. Take care and joy, Aythya crew
The law suits by the environmentalists that started this issue, are neither proper nor equal participation. They will work 24/7 with full time staff and paid attorneys to drive their agenda. Boaters will sign on to the website a couple of times a day, at best...... We have essentially one advocate, the environmentalist groups must number in the hundreds, I would bet on thousands. The troops that are opposed must be inspired as equally as those that form funded groups to press these issues.

It's not a conspiracy theory to push back on the initiative that wouldn't even exist if not for the heavily funded environmentalists. That's simply a fact, you must recognize. If not, please review the EPA's history of why we are even discussing this.

Clean Boating Act History | Clean Boating Act | US EPA
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  #52  
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This entire issue is much the same in principle to the larger challenge our country faces today. Our federal government is by and large being run by extreme left ideologues, known as progressives. And they have made major inroads in the last 3 years in health care, regulation of the financial and energy industries, and environmental regulation. Whatever they succeed at in the coming year or two, including for the purposes of this discussion, total retention of gray water for instance, will not affect me or my peers. This agenda, if successful, will however affect the younger generations and their children. People in their 20's and thirties really need to pay close attention to what these people are trying to do across the board, be educated, and then vote for what they think is the way they want the country to go. If some rules come out of this mandating retention of gray water, it will be unenforceable and no agency will have resources or interest in enforcing such nonsense. So money will be spent litigating something that is a moot point. Lawyers make money, the cost of boats increases, the EPA has work for its employees and their contractors, and we taxpayers foot the bill. As I said, people must pay attention and vote their desires.
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  #53  
Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The law suits by the environmentalists that started this issue, are neither proper nor equal participation. They will work 24/7 with full time staff and paid attorneys to drive their agenda. Boaters will sign on to the website a couple of times a day, at best...... We have essentially one advocate, the environmentalist groups must number in the hundreds, I would bet on thousands..............
"proper and equal"? Democracy does not mandate equal participation, but functions with the expressed participation of majorities.
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"proper and equal"? Democracy does not mandate equal participation, but functions with the expressed participation of majorities.
I suppose you are right. Proportional should be the mission. Let's hope the extremists only get their proportional voice. Here is a poll that makes my point:

Quote:
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. March 19-21, 2010. N=1,030 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"Do you think that the environmental laws and regulations that are currently on the books are adequate, should go further than they do, or have they gone too far already?" N=529 (Form B), MoE ± 4.5


Adequate Should go further Have gone too far Unsure
% % % %
26 43 29 2
The majority of adults (55%) believe our current laws are adequate or have gone too far. I do not believe they have proportional representation on these issues with the EPA, quite the opposite.

To be clear, I am not opposed to environmental regulation entirely. I am only opposed to that which is done for emotional victory, not logical, which is what I believe this poll say that most American's believe.

edit: sorry, I can't get the poll survey to format correctly, but you can probably follow across.
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Also, if you polled me and asked if I thought more should be done with municipal discharge into our waters, I would say "heck yes".
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Old 04-11-2011
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We are having this "discussion" because the EPA does NOT have a tract record of resonable restrictions. I would be willing to spend money equivalent to a water maker for a simular sized, and priced device that cleans discharge. Right now it would be a waste of money for two reasons, 1. I would still be fined in "no Discharge" zones, and 2nd I would have to pay monthly fees, and buy numerous permits to operate even past the three mile line, where now I can legally dump raw untreated sewage!

Also cruise ships dump their thousand gallon tanks just before crossing the line creating an ungodly stink that goes clear to shore. Cruise liners, and commercial ships are large enough and have enough money to install advanced treatment systems, but they do not,...Why? there is not only NO incentive to do so, there is a BIG disencentive. If they spent the 10's of thousands to install such a sysem there is no guarantee that whatever system they install will not be outlawed the next year, and that they would not be impacted by increased fees, and or fines anyway.

Basically the same reason I don't. If West Marine sold a greywater treatment system that was reasonably priced, and guaranteed imunity from prosecution, I would buy one now.

Even if it was only a disposable filter cartridge that removed soap, and oils wouldn't that be an improvement over nothing? The problem is NO ONE is proposing such a reasonable restriction. And even if I was to install one, I would have to pay annual fees for a "filter license", and the filter police to regularly inspect by boat. And a new billion dollar agency the BFD, (boat filter department), would be created to oversee and manage these government approved filters that would cost ten times more than unapproved filters that are identical except for the government stamp. Good luck, we are going to need it.
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Old 04-11-2011
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NY, not the only one...just a month ago...

A View from the Beach: Massive Sewage Spill in Baltimore which has an "every time it rains hard" event for the City of Baltimore, whose rivers dump directly in to Chesapeake

Gatlinburg, not in my Bay, but insane nonetheless

Sewage Spill Sends Millions of Gallons Into River | WSLS 10

And last year when we pressed the State of MD, the "crackdown" was laughable..$100 and $1000 fines for raw sewage dumping...Small fines for sewage spills irk river watchdogs • Top Stories (www.HometownAnnapolis.com - The Capital)

Sure the EPA is a sane agency?!??! And WHY should we trust ANYTHING they say..
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