BA Thesis Ecoyacht - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 04-12-2011 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Hello everybody!

I'm a new member here and I am not sure if this is the right column, but I got loads of questions
Together with a fellow student, I am studying product/industrial design and we are doing our BA thesis right now, and the topic is "ECOYACHT".

Unlike a lot of other more or less crazy or blue-sky yacht concepts which you can find on the internet, we want to do a preferably realistic concept of a cruising yacht with an as far as possible serious sustainable attitude.
Therefore we got a lot of questions and thoughts we want to share with you and where we hope to find answers.

The basic specifications are:

- Approx. 50 feet/ 15 metre performance cruising catamaran, suited for day cruises as well as 1-2 week travels, also charter
- the yacht will be powered by sails, since this is obviously still the most ecological way to power a boat
- instead of normal sails, we want to use wing-sails on our ship. It seems to have:
+ better efficiency
+ generates more drive
+ together with an electronic supporting system it could handle pretty
"easy"
- a big topic is rigging/ fast unrigging with strong winds or when based in
a marina
- we aren't sure how "accepted" wings are within the sailing community/
the customer
First steps towards unriggable wing sails have been made by omer wings
sails
- Everthing should be powered without fuel-burning motors


So basically speaking, what would you as a "possbile" buyer of an "ecoyacht" expect or wish ? In general, in what do you set value if you decide to purchase a big sailing yacht and want to spend about 1 Million $ ?

Do you think wing-sail is a reasonable technology for a cruising yacht ? Or should it be combined with the more traditional common sails ?

What are important aspects if you want to go on a 2-3 week trip concerning the boat ?

Which aspects of common Yachts in the 50 feet class do you think are not "eco" or sustainable at all, and which are particularly sustainable ?


You could really help us a lot if you answer those questions or write what ever comes to your mind.

Thanks a lot in advance!

akashara
akashara is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
The wing sail as it exists is really only good in high end racing boats

The solar thing is being done BUT again as the sole means of power the boat needs to be all solar panel and a massive amount of battery's

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tommays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
AdamLein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,924
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
I feel like your goal will strike a chord with the sailing community. Many sailors venture to sea with little resources and need to be as sustainable as possible. However, their goals and requirements are a bit different from yours. For example, many sailors are willing to burn gasoline to generate power. Still, I think it's a good plan.

Some thoughts:

Do you consider plastic sustainable? If not, what will your boat be made out of? Wood is probably the most sustainable material for boat construction, as it is biodegradable and easily produced and worked without the use of toxic chemicals. On the other hand, frequently toxic chemicals are involved with its maintenance (toxic chemicals are also involved in the maintenance of fiberglass, or, well, just about everything on a boat).

The wing sail thing also does not set well with the idea of sustainability. The whole idea seems to be, with a significant increase in cost, we can acquire a relatively small increase in performance. Do you really need that increase in performance? How much will it cost to maintain and operate? You're talking about fancy electronics to operate it, but the production of electronics involves toxic chemicals, and of course your need more energy to run them. I'm assuming that the electronics will be hooked up to some sort of motor or hydraulic actuators to actually control the wing sail, and this of course requires power as well, probably a lot. It is probably not sustainable to operate such systems on "green" energy alone.

Multihulls. I'm not very familiar with them, but I understand they are more expensive to buy and maintain than monohulls. To me, more expensive basically means less sustainable.

Personally I think you need to reconsider your goals. If you goal is to build a product that you can sell to a wealthy person who wants to appear "green", then you're probably on the right track. If your goal is to produce a system that can support one or more humans for an extended period of time while minimizing consumption on a repeating basis, you need to radically alter your approach.

s/v Laelia - 1978 Pearson 365 ketch
s/v Essorant - 1972 Catalina 27
AdamLein is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Touche' Adam Touche'
elvishessler is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
MarkCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Marco Island Florida
Posts: 514
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Probably the biggest problem with the plan is that sailors tend to go with traditional over modern when they can. New sail idea's are particularly hard to sell. A dacron fore and aft rigged boat is what most sailors are used to and are uncomfortable even thinking about anything else. If anything they would want to go with something even more traditional even if it is less practical. Although if anyone buyer would be willing to experiment it would be a catamaran sailor.

I do agree that there could be a niche market for certain buyer's out there.
MarkCK is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Barquito
 
Barquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,266
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
I would argue that most boat hulls do not have a significant environmental/ecological impact. Compared to cars, kitchen appliances, etc. a fiberglass boat hull may last for many decades before it must be replaced. Fuel burning motors could possibly be replaced with more sustainable energy. However, compared to the average speed boat, a typical sailor will use a fraction of the fuel in a season.

Maybe the largest ecological impact one could have in the marine industry is to convince more motor boaters to change to sailing.
Barquito is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Rather than wing sails, check out kites. A google search will bring lot's of info back. Kites have advantages in that the don't require a mast and a boat can easily carry many kites for different conditions. Also since the kites fly much higher than sails, they can reach cleaner and often stronger wind. The disadvantages are that there aren't many control mechanisms available and they don't typically point as high as traditional sails.
KiteRider is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
AdamLein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,924
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
I agree with the statement that fiberglass hulls themselves are pretty ecologically friendly. To a certain extent I was playing devil's advocate; I think the whole project is not really sustainable and so I'm picking on certain aspects.

I get a little bit up in arms when people propose ideas promoting "sustainability" without really addressing what sustainable means. Pouring thousands of dollars every year (plus a million dollar initial cost!) into a toy is not a sustainable use of resources. Unless the OPs come up with some sort of economically viable use for their 50-foot wing-sailed multihull yacht, I think it's borderline immoral to call it sustainable.

s/v Laelia - 1978 Pearson 365 ketch
s/v Essorant - 1972 Catalina 27
AdamLein is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
AdamLein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,924
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
In other news, batteries are bad for the environment. Not very often, for the average sailor, I admit, but once in a while you have to dispose of some toxic waste. Instead, I propose flywheels! You put a flywheel in a vacuum, suspend it with electromagnets, and spin it up. Much more efficient energy storage than batteries, much lower maintenance, and less harmful waste. For a small sailboat, I suspect some sort of gimbaling system would be in order, otherwise you'd lose a lot of energy to gyroscopic precession. Also not sure what sort of weight we're talking about.

Still, that would be a sustainable yacht project I'd like to see.

s/v Laelia - 1978 Pearson 365 ketch
s/v Essorant - 1972 Catalina 27
AdamLein is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 18 Old 04-12-2011
Somewhat Senior Member
 
mgmhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 619
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
The original post reminds me of Steve Martin's bit on how to never pay taxes again... "First you get a Million Dollars!"

s/v Rhythm
Catalina 387 #29
Rock Hall, MD
mgmhead is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome