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  #21  
Old 04-15-2011
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I'm far from an expert but...
- Expect to see water in a bilge. Rain will go down the mast into the bilge, the shaft packing will provide some as well.
- Crazing of the gel coat on the decks isn't an issue, unless there is water in the deck. Even that can be fine as long as it doesn't affect structural areas.
- Old diesel engines can be just about bullet proof if they have been maintained properly. Consider an oil analysis.
- Ports that need to be rebedded or replaced aren't a huge deal if you have the patience to do it.
- Standing rigging is a HUGE issue. I worry less about what I can see than about what I can't see. Check all the chainplates. The metal should be free of rust and any structural components that they are attached to should be solid. I don't know how that boat is constructed, but that would be my biggest concern.
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybyknight View Post
Cape Dorys traditionally have thicker than normal gel coat and that over time and strain causes disproportionately more gel coat crazing which is cosmetic only. If however the deck is soft, then walk away.
As a Cape Dory owner I can say:
Look at the backing plates using a mirror through the inspection ports. If it is darker (rust) than adjacent areas, walk!
The engine, and the above to me are critical. Other deficiencies are comparatively minor.

Dick
I am overwhelmed at you all's kindness and advice. Thanks again!
I'm relieved that the gel cracks and water in the bilge are minor problems. He did say he'd put a new bearing (dripless) as a result of a run in with a crab trap. Also, thanks for the advice on the chainplates. I didn't notice an inspection port but will look again when I go over the boat. I hope I'm not abusing the owners trust by going to the boat a third time. He lives away and can't show the boat, and has no broker. If he did I'd still want to look at it more than once. At this point I'm actually trying to find fault with the boat, as another has come up, thhough it's a bit farther away. It's brokered and the info on the boat is more thorough. It looks better, from the pics (and boy can they be deceiving; without even being photoshopped!) but it's going to be limited on viewing, being 5 hours away. There will be shipping of the boat to add on too.
On falling in love - I'll save that for when a boat is mine! I can be blinded to the facts with women and boats if I fell in love too soon!
And my dad once told me that "Son, you haven't been ripped off until you pull your wallet out of your pocket" and I've got it glued to my back pocket right now!
Thanks again guys! Great advice. I'll keep this thread going until the deed is done, then tell you all of my love affair!
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  #23  
Old 04-20-2011
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Well, I still haven't nailed down what boat we want to shoot for. Cape Dory 33's are fairly scarce, and the calculations of which boat is the best deal depending on asking price versus what needs to be done to the boat has resulted in us nearly eliminating everything so far.
So what other boats would work for us: Couple with a dog for coastal crusing in the Gulf of Mexico and with some distance stuff to the Keys with a 5 year run to retirement and heading to the Caribbean for awhile, with the potential for a run across the Pacific. All this for under $40K base, with refitting for the Pacific run. Sound plausible. Mainly I don't want to get but one more boat, and I want it warm and dry below, makes it easier to tolerate cold and wet above!
What do you think of this?
Or this?

Last edited by pinayreefer; 04-20-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-20-2011
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Morgan OutIsland 33 would fit most of your needs.
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  #25  
Old 04-20-2011
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I have just completed purchase on my first yacht (a nice little bilge keeler known as a Leisure 29), from the looks of it you're in the same sort of budget range as me (low). We've been looking at similar boats. I would really recommend sailingdogs excellent guide to boat inspection as others have mentioned. I offer the following advice, as someone fresh from the buying process;

I found in my search for the right boat that when you're dealing with a boat of this age, it is most likely fully depreciated in price. The difference between one that needs a bit of work and one in pristine condition wont be that large. Fixing up an old boat is a lovely idea but can easily turn into a project spiralling out of budget and sanity. Get a boat that's in good shape already and spend those same efforts making it even better. Brand is not, in my estimation, worth much at this point either. If an 80s boat is in good shape now and well used then she must have been built well and no doubt sails pleasantly too, else she would be left to collect barnacles or scuppered by now.

Take into account everything you need to buy or replace upon purchase. Does she need new safety gear? ropes? sail work? engine service? Write down everything and price it up, it may surprise you how much it all adds up to. Make a budgeting speadsheet that takes into account all of this, maintenance costs, running costs, insurance and berthing/storage of each boat you've looked at so you can compare them easily. When you add it all up you might find that the 'dream boat' is actually more of an anchor.

A well loved boat that is hard parted from her owners is a very good sign. Find out as much history as you can, avoid any boats that have changed hands too often (mine had three owners of 10 years a piece).

Finally: take your time, sleep on any decisions, don't be pressured into anything that can't wait 24 hours.

Good luck!

Last edited by limeyrock; 04-20-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-20-2011
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Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Hey Pinayreefer, we're just not that good. Did you get a small case of induced cold feet?
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  #27  
Old 04-20-2011
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Thanks Limeyrock, good advice. The last boat, which I thought might be the one, after 5 trips to look at her, I began seeing problems I hadn't seen before that. And the "price" kept going up and up! Very disappointing as now I'll have to range farther to find what I'm looking for.

Minnewaska, definitely cold feet. One thing I've found about forums in general is that there's always someone to tell you that the thing you're considering is BS, and that if you take their advice and get the ugliest boat imaginable you'll be happiest. I think I saw it here that "life's too short to sail on an ugly boat!"
I am a bit overloaded, but also disappointed that I can't seem to find just what we want. I've got my wife convinced that a boat is what we need, but I don't want to ruin it by getting something that isn't a pleasant experience. She's never even been on a sailboat, so first impressions, and later too, must be right. Limeyrock is so right, but the calculation about the final costs of any given boat are so complicated, and some things aren't known until you make the deal and call a surveyor.
I'm not giving up though! I just have to find the right boat!
Thanks again guys!
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2011
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Still saying your wife and you might like a Catalina 30. I know some don't like them for various reasons
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2011
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warning, warning. Wife's never been on a sailboat? Literally?

I suggest lessons and soon...... It is very common that one's first experience is not the calm, serene, glide into the sunset that they imagine. Waves, confusion with lines and point of sail, head down in cockpit looking for one of those lines causing motion sickness, etc. Usually goes away quickly as they settle down and get comfortable, but that experience probably shouldn't be on your big new investment. Get past it before you buy, unless you're both good with you sailing alone.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
warning, warning. Wife's never been on a sailboat? Literally?

I suggest lessons and soon...... It is very common that one's first experience is not the calm, serene, glide into the sunset that they imagine. Waves, confusion with lines and point of sail, head down in cockpit looking for one of those lines causing motion sickness, etc. Usually goes away quickly as they settle down and get comfortable, but that experience probably shouldn't be on your big new investment. Get past it before you buy, unless you're both good with you sailing alone.
Fortunately, I've been in that kind of scenario before. Wife thinking she knew more about it than I did, though she was from Idaho and had never been on a boat. Well, after that debacle ended I realized that if I wanted to bring dates on romantic sails, I'd better learn to single-hand, and the sweet young things offer "to help" was met with, "Honey, you just sit there and drink that cocktail while I take care of this boat". 5 years of practice, with lots of solo sailing, and I got good enough that there were never any "exciting" moments, with the boat that is. My present wife has now been with me 9 years, actually trusts me to be able to do what needs to be done but is still eager to help if I ask. I'll still take it very slowly and carefully, though the idea of lessons, or at least the renting of a small laser or somesuch, with several spills to get her over the "heeling fear" will go a long way.
I taught her to drive a car with no problems, hopefully teaching her to sail will go as smoothly. Patience, caution, and "NO SHOUTING" are my primary methods of instruction. Any other advice along those lines is appreciated! I've got "Small Boat Sailor's Bible" and "Invitation to Sailing", books I've had for many years, that I show her, read aloud from, and ask questions from and she's been game for. Hey, she already knows what "boom vang". "topping lift", and "lazy jacks" are and what they are for! She's certainly impressed me with her eagerness to learn.
This process of finding a boat has been up and down though. I think she's been amused at the whole thing. One boat I looked at 5 times, once just standing on the dock and staring at the boat, (and finding several things I'd missed on earlier inspections!). I think she wonders about my sanity.
Tomorrow we are going to look at an Allied SeaWind II, next week possibly an S2 11.0A, and in May when we go to the Keys, it'll be a road trip of boat views, with at least 4 to look at. I think she suspects rightly, I am going crazy!

Last edited by pinayreefer; 04-21-2011 at 03:01 PM.
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