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  #31  
Old 06-02-2011
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Just to keep up with our adventure, we're still boatless, but have taken you all's advice and gotten her on a sailboat for some fun. She coped well and so that hurdle is over.
We've still not gotten the boat, but an Allied Princess may be in our future. Cleaning out all the other possibilities first, to make sure we haven't missed anything worthwhile then we'll go for it.
The advice on getting a spreadsheet and calculating everything that would be needed was good not only to discover what the total cost would be, but also as a reality check on what it's all going to cost.
Funny though, some calculations end up favoring a boat that does have some stuff that's worn out. We found one boat with some older but still working electronics that the owners overvalued (in my opinion) so that another boat with the electronics which didn't work (and so weren't added to the owner perceived value) seemed better when you knew you were going to end up with new electronics. It's all very complicated though, and no way is it an investment, any more than a car is.
I'm visiting local boatyards and talking to surveyors now, only a matter of time.
Thanks for everyone's help.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2011
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Yes, I am still following, waiting to see your decision. Is it a decision from the Heart or the brain ?
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2011
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The NADA Blue Book values a 1982 CD 33 at about $30K on average and about $26K at the lower end.

In that vintage, you'd want the surveyor to check for osmotic blistering and make sure the hull repair was properly done. The haulout is absolutely necessary. Your sale should always be contingent on a satisfactory survey to cover those things that you are not aware of going into the deal. The minor stuff is not the proper basis for haggling, but non-functioning equipment, blown-out sails, and structural issues are fair game for your either negotiating repairs/reduced price or walking away with your deposit.

In the end, the boat is only worth what you are willing to pay for it: anything else, like an average sale price, doesn't matter.

The customary procedure is to negotiate a written sales agreement with the price contingent on a satisfactory survey. You would provide a deposit up front that the sales agreement would indicate is refundable if the survey uncovers material defects. Then you do the survey.
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  #34  
Old 06-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
Yes, I am still following, waiting to see your decision. Is it a decision from the Heart or the brain ?
Hmm, interesting question.
I think so far, we fall "in lust" with a boat, liking her lines and how she sits in the water, then as we inspect and look at the boat, reality sets in and the burden of what would need to be done to make her "lovable" turns us away!
As we looked at more and more boats, it seemed that the Allied's lines more often turned us on than not, though we really disliked the Mistress, and after trying to make a Seawind II "work" finally got over her too, just too small for us, so it's come down to a Princess or the 42 XL(which is just too much for our budget)

fallard, thanks for the outline of the buying process. We've learned as we've searched and talked to you all and others. The CD's ended up getting scratched because of how proud many CD owners are of abused and neglected boats. Good ones are few and far between. We finally gave up in frustration, plus the wood interiors that we so admire in photos usually end up being dark inside and tons of work to make look decent again, work that doesn't make the boat more seaworthy. The later model Allieds have a nice mixture of wood trim and white laminate, easier to clean and makes for a brighter interior. Plus they remind me of the commercial fishing boats I worked on while growing up!

Last edited by pinayreefer; 06-03-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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  #35  
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If you don't mind saying again, what is your budget ? ( or did you say )?
I would guess you are ready to give boat buying advice. How can you streamline the process, or can you ? Is the journey becoming more fun than getting that Final boat ? A friend of mine was looking for a sailboat and I joked with him that he was a "professional boat buyer". He finally bought a 'lemon' and is still working on it. He first had 18 questions and then developed 28 questions he would ask sellers.
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  #36  
Old 06-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney777 View Post
If you don't mind saying again, what is your budget ? ( or did you say )?
I would guess you are ready to give boat buying advice. How can you streamline the process, or can you ? Is the journey becoming more fun than getting that Final boat ? A friend of mine was looking for a sailboat and I joked with him that he was a "professional boat buyer". He finally bought a 'lemon' and is still working on it. He first had 18 questions and then developed 28 questions he would ask sellers.
Sidney, sorry I delayed in answering your questions, but the search for the right boat was reaching a crescendo and the owner of one of the boats on our short list may have been a member of this forum so I didn't want to show our hand on how much we were willing to pay!
There have been several threads about what kind of market this is, and even brokers admitting (possibly to push the deal) have said it's a buyers market.
We ended up with two Allied Princess's we were going for, one a fixer upper, but close at hand, and a sense that we could have gotten it at a real good price (whatever that might mean, good or bad) and another, much farther away (will require a cross-gulf trip to bring it home), very good condition, but of course higher price. In the end, you just have to pull out your wallet and see what happens. The negotiating I'm sure had the broker earning more of his commission than normal, but in the end I paid a bit more than I wanted, and the buyer accepted less than he wanted. I'd have preferred another way, where we're both happy, but I guess that's the nature of our present economy? Still, I got the boat at a substantial reduction of asking. When we first started looking I assumed that the asking was roughly what we'd pay, but that turns out not to be the case, at least in our experience.
As far as giving advice on boat buying, I'm not sure I'm qualified in any way yet, it'll take a few months to see what kind of deal I really got! For sure I'm glad I am at least familiar with boats, and was willing to look at ones I was interested multiple times as they often didn't look as good on second inspection! And with the cost of a survey and haulout, I'd hate to make an offer and have the surveyor discover something that breaks the deal; the buyer still loses.
I don't know how many questions we asked each seller. For sure it was better to have the boat shown by the owner rather than the broker, too much waiting while the broker found the answeres, sometimes we'd forget the question before the answer came back. I broke the looking up by systems. After deciding on an Allied I researched to discover what their strengths and weaknesses are known to be and see what the present state of those systems was. For instance, a boat that old should have been repowered or at least rebuilt. the standing rigging should have been replaced or inspected and repaired. Sails? Electrical? Hull condition. (A friend got a funny look when reading a listing that said "freshly painted blister-free bottom"!)
Now to prepare for the survey and return home. I'm fortunate to have a friend who spend many years in the south pacific, longlining for tuna. Between his offshore experience and my sailing hopefully we can bring it home with no fuss.
For anyone curious, here's the links to the three final boats on our list. the Seawind was the boat that made us decide to go for a boat in better shape. It was really nice inside, with a new engine, but it would always be 32 feet, and just a bit too small for the idea of an eventual liveaboard. Nice boat for someone though.
Serenity
Highland Winds II
Summerwind

Last edited by pinayreefer; 06-13-2011 at 06:02 AM.
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  #37  
Old 06-13-2011
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Pinayreefer
Congrats looks like you found a nice boat. I didn't understand your last paragraph regarding the "Seawind made us decide to look for a boat in better shape" Did you mean to say a larger boat, as that Seawind looks in pretty good shape to me. Compared to us sailing out the channel in some 'old' boat.



Congrats and happy sailing and living (I agree 32 is to small to live aboard)
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  #38  
Old 06-13-2011
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When we first started looking for a boat, it seemed certain that we'd end up with a "fixer-upper" that we'd put sweat equity and money into to have our dream. When we came upon the Allied Seawind II, "Summerwind", we fell in love at first sight. She is in great shape, with a new motor and very nice lines. She is also very reasonably priced (assuming you could negotiate some lesser amount than asking). we nearly stopped there, but as mentioned, the 32 feet was just a bit too small for us, and excited us to look for something slightly bigger and in near quality aspect. Thus the Serenity. She seems to be in as good a shape, has the same very nice Allied lines, and is 36 ft. Some might think this is still too small, but I've been preparing for this a long time, by living in small houses! It feels really comfortable inside!
Now to finish the deal and bring her home.
I'll start another thread on that portion of the experience and post the link here.
PS- great photo, that is one scene of many I fantasize about while landbound.

Last edited by pinayreefer; 06-13-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2011
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Thank you for the explanation (which I fully agree with)
We look forward to hearing how you are bringing her 'home'.
Safe and happy sailing
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