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  #31  
Old 05-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
If you are going to close up and wait it out below, bare poles is not necessarily going to guarantee your safety. You want either a series drogue or a sea anchor to hold you perpendicular to the waves.
I have heard some sailors (Jon Sanders for example in a double non-stop circumnavigation) used bare poles with no sea anchor or drogue and did what is called "lay a hull" when the seas hit you beam on. Apparently the boat rides very well unless hit by a breaking wave where you might get rolled- but you will come up, which did happen to Jon Sanders. I spoke to a past owner of my current boat. The owner told me he was sailing in 80 knot winds with 60 foot seas and used bare poles with a wind vane to steer (this was in the Tasman Sea). I am not sure if a drogue was used, he did not mention it. My boat currently has a parachute anchor and a drogue. I do not think I would ever use a parachute anchor in high seas as from what I have read, It could cause the bow to submarine into a large wave or breaking wave. Maybe if I were getting blown into land it could be useful to slow progress until I fixed problem or got help. A drouge would be useful (Jon Sanders dragged warps for this) and could be used while sailing or running bare poles.
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  #32  
Old 05-05-2011
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The only perfectly safe sailing is via a computer game. On the other hand, while someone dying in a sailing accident is rare enough that it's likely to make the evening news, people are killed every day on the freeway with hardly a mention.
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  #33  
Old 05-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I have heard some sailors (Jon Sanders for example in a double non-stop circumnavigation) used bare poles with no sea anchor or drogue and did what is called "lay a hull" when the seas hit you beam on. Apparently the boat rides very well unless hit by a breaking wave where you might get rolled- but you will come up, which did happen to Jon Sanders.
Being rolled does not guarantee your safety. You may not come around with your mast intact, not to mention the people down below.

Quote:
I do not think I would ever use a parachute anchor in high seas
Makes sense to me, but I wasn't trying to start the drogue v. sea anchor discussion within this context.
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  #34  
Old 05-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
The only perfectly safe sailing is via a computer game. On the other hand, while someone dying in a sailing accident is rare enough that it's likely to make the evening news, people are killed every day on the freeway with hardly a mention.
Here in Hawaii, there are probably 3 people killed every year in offshore (not near shore boating accidents). Most actually receive less press than car accidents that probably kill about 30 per year.
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  #35  
Old 05-05-2011
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Being rolled does not guarantee your safety. You may not come around with your mast intact, not to mention the people down below.
That is why it is important to strap down loose objects and be able to strap into a bunk. Any ocean going boat should be able to do this. With a strong rig in good condition, you should be able to handle a roll over (with no sail set). If not, then the boat is not really set up for ocean passage making. If the boat cannot handle this, it should not go to sea where these conditions might present themselves. In the case where a rig is lost, one must have tools and knowledge to cut and dispose of rig to prevent holing of hull. Again, if one does not have these skills, the risk of problems goes up. If one cannot prepare for the worst possible situation that may present itself, then the boat is not seaworthy. If one attempts to take a boat that is not prepared for the worst possible scnario, then they are gabling.
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Casey,

I don't disagree with your point about having an appropriate rig. However, more than one ocean ready boat has been dismasted.

Given the choice between running bare poles and having decent odds of rolling and dragging a drogue and not likely rolling, I don't get why one would choose to lay ahull.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 05-05-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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  #37  
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Casey,

I don't disagree with your point about having an appropriate rig. However, more than one ocean ready boat has been dismasted.
Agree, so one needs to be prepared to cut it away because a demasting can occur in all conditions- carring sail, no sail, drogue, parachute anchor, motoring.

I think if I were on the "Sea Flower Two" I would have taken my chances on the boat. Maybe there was somthing else going on that made the boat unseaworthy and required rescue- I tried to find more information but unable. I would not be surprised if the boat was found floating several days later in good condition (although leaving the sail up could have caused it to sink, especially if the main hatch was not secured when abandoned). I think the Coast Guard rescue of the baby had about a 20% chance of success. They did an amazing rescue and they should be congradulated- especially that rescue swimmer.
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Well, package81 has certainly gotten enough answers to keep him busy for awhile. I hope he comes back and responds sometime.

For my part, I just have to say that there is no way that sailing or any other activity in the world is going to be completely safe. If one is worried about dying they aren't living.
Having had a brother lost at sea I know first hand that it's a perilous activity. By the same token, I've lost other loved ones on motorcycles, to drugs, to illness and disease and to simple old age.
Living is dangerous. But it's better than the alternative.
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  #39  
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Originally Posted by knothead View Post
Well, package81 has certainly gotten enough answers to keep him busy for awhile. I hope he comes back and responds sometime.

For my part, I just have to say that there is no way that sailing or any other activity in the world is going to be completely safe. If one is worried about dying they aren't living.
Having had a brother lost at sea I know first hand that it's a perilous activity. .
I hope we did not scare him away. I have also lost two friends to sailing (one on Pride of Baltimore I- Pride of Baltimore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and do not think anyone should consider it a 100% safe sport (although nothing is 100% safe).

Actually it is a very difficult sport if you are doing ocean passages. You need to be an athalete, mechanic, weatherman, sail tactichian, cook, medic, seamstress, electrician, plumber and probably a few other things I missed, but anyone can learn these things if they are willing- I know I still am.

Last edited by casey1999; 05-05-2011 at 09:29 PM.
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Sailing accidents or injuries can happen at any time regardless of weather conditions. I have sailed in most weather conditions without any mishaps. Unfortunately 6 weeks ago after a beautiful day of sailing and with the boat docked I took a took a step where there was no deck and fell from it into the cockpit backwards while flaking the sail and fractured two vertebrae. I had almost convinced my wife to go cruising for an extended period of time. It now looks like I will stay a day sailor.
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