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  #91  
Old 05-15-2011
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Every year people are injured using stairs ,steps and ramps.

I think because these people could be injured , that anyone who uses stairs,steps or ramps should be forced to purchase insurance, lest they should become injured and wards of the state. we cannot be expected to "fo the bill" as a society for those who simply cannot be responsible enough to purchase a policy to safeguard against this common safety issue.
And bycycle riders as well.
Also , sunburn cancer victims, after all cancer can be expensive to treat.
let's not forget walking outside in inclimate weather . we all know the dangers of slipping and falling and the possible injuries associated, yes, definately a needfor an insurance policy.
As a matter of fact ,life almost always results in death ! I think we should mandate that anyoe born should have all manner of insurances to safeguard anyone and everyone against the unforseen potential dangers of life as well as any unforseen dangers to themselves or others .
And ......

where does it end ?

By the by ,haven't got any input on the cash value requirements yet?
what's up?
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  #92  
Old 05-15-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
posted by sublime-


According to the ins. companies, whom were involved in negotiations w/ the powers that be in the state of florida, the public liability and costs caused by personal injury resulting from head injuries incurred by helmetless riders would be substantial.
this despite the fact that in every instance where madatory helmet use was repealed the death and injury rate for motorcycle riders decreased !

(man is this thread waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy off topic ? !!!)

I see a lot of people are going to go with the cost of life support. Considering the number of medicare patients we keep alive who really should be allowed to pass on, the life support argument is almost insignificant.

My point is, the choice of a seatbelt and a helmet mostly effects you. If the accident is YOUR fault, what you do to the other person's property because you didn't wear a seatbelt or a helmet isn't going to be much different. Most motorcycle accidents aren't fatal. But people do get things like brain bleeds which could have been avoided with a brain bucket, or severe road rash requiring treatments similar to burn victims when a jacket and riding pants could prevent, or broken necks and backs from being ejected from an accident that would have resulted in some whiplash had they worn a seatbelt. ICUs and hospital stays, surgeries, etc are certainly way more painful to pay for than getting sent home from the ER after an accident.

There's as many statistics supporting helmets are there are not supporting, so I don't care what florida reports.

Anyway, my point has been lost since that was the part of my post that was picked out.
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  #93  
Old 05-15-2011
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Joe-

You've asked a couple times how much insurance those of us that support the concept think would be appropriate to carry. It is a fair question that none of us have yet answered.

There are a lot of variables that would go into that, but I can tell you that I'm insured for $500k per accident. The more I think about it, I think that I should check into increasing it. I carry more general and professional liability insurance on my business. If I was to sustain a 1 Million dollar judgment against me, I would lose not only boat, but house, cars, and all my business interest, plus spend the next 30 years paying off the judgment.

For me personally, bankruptcy is not an option.

Dave
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  #94  
Old 05-15-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post

By the by ,haven't got any input on the cash value requirements yet?
what's up?

Oh I was just curious because you said $30 a month, and I was hoping maybe you had an expensive boat.. That would mean that my cheapo boat might be cheaper to insure.. But I have no idea if boats are like cars when you go to insure them... I will just find out when the time comes I suppose.
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  #95  
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Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Is the ANY thread in which you participate that you dont somehow 'skew' the discussion towards 'politics'? I suggest that you try weaning-off from the "Kool-Aid", Jon.
Actually, I thought I’d done a fairly decent job of behaving myself around here (grin)… Of my 125 posts so far on Sailnet, I believe you’d be hard-pressed to find more than a few that contain any discernable political reference. I do recall making a single comment to someone who thought we should invade and occupy Somalia in one of the pirate threads, but the following is the only post I can think of in which I actually outline a political point of view… And, I think we all know, NO ONE ever makes it through a thread on Cruising to Cuba without delving into politics at some point, and I think I still made a fair contribution to that thread before dropping this one:

Cuba in my sights

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
So why do you clearly insinuate 'politics' in a thread about a boat stuck in the mud near Annapolis ?????????????????
What has governmental mishandling & misconduct in the handling of the financial sector have to do with a boat stuck in the mud?????
I agree, the financial meltdown is irrelevant to this particular discussion – that’s the primary reason why I responded to the poster who injected it into the debate to begin with….

However, it’s virtually impossible to keep politics out of a discussion such as this… This story is one largely about issues such as property rights, individual freedoms weighed against responsibilities to the larger community, the right of government to mandate participation in such schemes as insurance pools, and so on…. What is all that, if not a debate that will largely be informed by leanings and points of view that can only be construed as political?

Oh, and if the mere correction of the historical record to reflect that the global economic crisis actually occurred in ’08 as opposed to ’09 is now to be construed as “Drinking the Kool-Aid”, well… then color me guilty…
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  #96  
Old 05-15-2011
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Granted, most of us believe that liability insurance is responsible and full-coverage is good risk diversification.

Granted, Joe's enjoying throwing gasoline on the fire. Most of us, I hope, see some good points in there*.

But really, isn't the factual record of the thread that a sailor salvaged his boat without adding to the collective insurance risk history, by working hard and being patient? Yes, there is some talk to the effect that the damaged party was at risk of not being paid, but we have no (or little) factual support for the assertion that the parties were not or are not going to reach a fair settlement (perhaps I missed something). I think it was a very happy ending, as happy as can be expected.

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* I have worked mountain rescue and I can assure you that a very disproportionate share of the injured wear helmets, while most climbers do not. This seems counter intuitive, since those wearing helmets must be more safety conscious.

That conclusion contains a fallacy in logic; wearing a helmet mean the climber bought a helmet, thinking it would protect him, not that he understood what it takes to be safe. Helmets are good for small falling rocks but do very little in the case of a fall; it's not their designed purpose.

I think too many people are like that with insurance; they will stand by and watch bad stuff happen or fail to take precautions they should, knowing they have insurance. We all pay for it.

Though I do not agree with Joe on all points, I think we have failed to make the case that Joe is more expensive to society than a sailor who has insurance and uses it as a crutch. On the average, I'm pretty sure I'm right. Insurance makes for an expensive society; I also think it is offset by the stability and predictability insurance brings, by freeing up capital.

I'll keep buying insurance for my own reasons. Yes, my net worth FAR exceeds my insurance coverage and I could pay a very large ticket. I just don't want to worry over it. However, in 30 years of boating I have NEVER had a claim, so I could buy a nice little cruiser with what I've spent!
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  #97  
Old 05-15-2011
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PDQALTAIR-

Thank you for so eloquently wording what I failed to convey. Particularly the
helmet use issue, and the cost to society part hits right on as well.
you said in one post what I failed to express in several.
thats all.
I just cannot let what might happen keep me from doing what I need to do,
live.
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  #98  
Old 05-15-2011
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This is pretty funny.

Insurance is meant to protect "your" assets. There are two ways in which your "assets" can be in danger:

1) Your negligence
2) Someone else's negligence

If you have "assets" then you would be wise to protect them. It's not everyone else's responsibility to protect "your" assets so act accordingly.

If I do not have 2 nickels to rub together and total your Mercedez, I hope you were wise enough to purchase insurance to protect your assets. If not, it's your lack of responsibility to protect your assets. In this scenario, since I have no assets to protect, it makes no sense for me to have insurance.

It's really interesting how easily people will quickly and thoughtlessly surrender their freedoms for a perceived protection. It's why we are where we are today. It's the sense of entitlement felt at all levels that makes us weak and easily controlled.

If you have something to lose protect it. Expecting someone else to bail you out is simply not going to happen. No matter what the insurance companies, backed by the government will profit - be smart.
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  #99  
Old 05-15-2011
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Quote:
Insurance is meant to protect "your" assets. There are two ways in which your "assets" can be in danger:

1) Your negligence
2) Someone else's negligence

If you have "assets" then you would be wise to protect them. It's not everyone else's responsibility to protect "your" assets so act accordingly.

If I do not have 2 nickels to rub together and total your Mercedez, I hope you were wise enough to purchase insurance to protect your assets. If not, it's your lack of responsibility to protect your assets. In this scenario, since I have no assets to protect, it makes no sense for me to have insurance.

It's really interesting how easily people will quickly and thoughtlessly surrender their freedoms for a perceived protection. It's why we are where we are today. It's the sense of entitlement felt at all levels that makes us weak and easily controlled.

If you have something to lose protect it. Expecting someone else to bail you out is simply not going to happen. No matter what the insurance companies, backed by the government will profit - be smart.
interesting perspective, I like it.
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  #100  
Old 05-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
If I do not have 2 nickels to rub together and total your Mercedez, I hope you were wise enough to purchase insurance to protect your assets. If not, it's your lack of responsibility to protect your assets. In this scenario, since I have no assets to protect, it makes no sense for me to have insurance.
Our notions of what personal responsibility means are so completely different that there is no common ground for discussion.
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