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  #41  
Old 05-14-2011
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I'm not a fan of mandatory insurance, but I am a strong believer in mandatory responsibility - i.e., you make the mess, you clean it up. This could be done by having insurance which makes the payment for you when you screw up; by being wealthy enough to self-insure; or by being (or knowing) a good carpenter, marine welder, etc.

But the onus should be on the guy who caused the damage, not the injured party, to make it right, by whatever method.
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  #42  
Old 05-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
Couldn't be happier to find the grounded vessel was recovered. Yea ! Hurray !

Sorry to see this has turned into another "if only he'd had isurance" thread.
But, you "went there" so ....
I'm not a proponent of forced insurance,regardless of the scenario and there are many plausable arguments on both sides.
The ONLY reason I purchase insurance is if I CHOOSE to participate in activities where I must purchase it under threat of arrest,i.e. automotive insurance.
Oddly 2 years ago I was struck from behind at a stop light by an unlicensed driver! My vehicle was deemed "totaled" by the insurance company after they inspected it. The insurance of the other auto owner (not the unlicensed operator) paid me almost as much as I purchased the vehicle for originaly,several thousand dollars. I accepted and repaired it for about $100 and am still driving it today and actually get compliments on what a nice vehicle it is !
I'm not sure what this means,except that it is indicative of the problems w/ waste and exspence of the insurance industry.
Insurance and MANY vehicle/traffic laws did not,will not, and cannot halt unfortunate accidents or incidents like these.
Mandatory insurance laws will make boating less affordable,more regulated,and give law enforcement one more excuse/reason to detain/approach/harass and fine everyone and anyone they selectively choose to. under the justification of Safety and enforcement.
Is this the path you want recreational boating to take ? I don't.
If you are too scared to get out on the water w/your vessel without your insurance underwriter and your attorney, then please, stay in the yacht club dry storage and keep mailing in your checks to your premium and retainer fees.
I, whom enjoy freedom, and am confident my own abilities, as demonstrated by years of adventuring and traveling safely, would prefer to continue to do so, and feel confident that my children will be free to enjoy the same, unencumbered by govermental intrusion brought by those less bold or able.
In Vegas they have a saying "insurance is a sucker bet"
Hear hear Bravo Bravo!!!!!
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  #43  
Old 05-14-2011
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well the owner of the ocra had a t least 5K to float his boat. Do we have definitive proof that he is not going to help repair the other guys boat?

If we don't then are we not all premature is assuming that he is not.

also lets all remember that this was an accident, and things just happen.
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  #44  
Old 05-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
I'm not a fan of mandatory insurance, but I am a strong believer in mandatory responsibility - i.e., you make the mess, you clean it up. This could be done by having insurance which makes the payment for you when you screw up; by being wealthy enough to self-insure; or by being (or knowing) a good carpenter, marine welder, etc.

But the onus should be on the guy who caused the damage, not the injured party, to make it right, by whatever method.
Exactly
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  #45  
Old 05-14-2011
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Quote:
But the onus should be on the guy who caused the damage, not the injured party, to make it right, by whatever method.
It is, it's called the court system, I don't beieve I ever indicated the offending party was not culpable nor, a stated, has anyone definatively determined that the offending party refused responsibility.
Like most incidents there are at least 2 sides to the story. I this case the injured party chose to be calous and verbally abusive to the other party involved.
Due to this initial approach I'm not at all suprised that the offending party hasn't gone to any length to approach him offering recompense. Maybe he has,I don't know, and Idon't believe anyone posting here knows either.
The crux of my issue with the situation is how quickly some are to call for more govermental intrusion and regulations mandating or compelling one to purchase an insurance policy as the only palatable solution.
If you spend a few moments on the "web" you will quickly find that involving the insurance industry in a mndatory manner does, more often than not, eliminate these types of problems. Often only adding another layer of beaurocratic expense and confusion. Look at the involvement of goverment in any other area and judge for yourself.
Is this the results your seeking to introduce to maritime activities ?
There are already adequate systems in place to address these situations.
More regulation will not result in less "Acts of god" or results of poor judgement or bad maritime choices being made. There are too many variables both controlled and uncontrolable.
Mandating insurance is not the "magic pill"
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  #46  
Old 05-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
If you read the attached article from the local paper the bow rail "sprung " back.
Of course I have not personally viewed the damage as "you" apparently have, nor am I sure the reporting is completely accurate as to the amount of damage claimed by the injured party.
I am mearly making judgement on what has been reported second hand.
I am however well aware, as I'm sure many are that the "whiplash" factor must be taken into account when injured parties are questioned about the extent and value of the damages.
Based on the information reported as well as the responses of those in the area I would surmise the injured party may very well be a bit unreasonable based on the oft-reported hostile response to an unfortunate situation.
Or to put it more buntly . the fellow seems a bit of an A**.
What's more , if the injured party was concerned about his hard earned craft and the safety of it, as it is situated on the bank of a public waterway where accidents (quite aparently) coul and do happen.
I would contend that, in this instance, the injured party was culpable by virtue of not adequately preparing himself for the possibility that an unfortunate happening may occur and if concerned with this possibility he was remiss for not taking action to protect himself (by purchasing insurance for himself)!
Possibly the unforsean expense he may now bear could have been mitigated by purchasing the very heralded INSURANCE that many have been crowing about !
The injured party would have been covered. But ,alas, he Chose not to purchase insurance for said incident. As did the fellow whom craft unquestionably caused the damage.
So instead of attempting to influence others to purchase insurance ,those concerned should mearly purchase there own coverage , if they feel so inclined .
simple solution if your scared about it , take your own action to protect yourself if you feel it's justified. the isurance companies will be more than happy to assst you in making an appropriate level and type of coverage you feel you'll need.
In the meantime I'll continue to take the actions I feel the situation merits as has been the practice employed by mariners for centuries. without the need of further intervention/regulation.
Well, I read this post twice, and I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

You state, you don't have insurance for your boat (which by the way is not that expensive..), and your skill and equipment is so superior, there is no chance you will ever damage your boat or others. But we all know S*** happens while boating, and here are two scenarios:
Your boat damaged the hull of the...
1) Oyster 74 anchored leeward of you. Well, the other guy, with the expensive boat will have insurance to cover for your responsibility. His insurance will go up, but not really your problem...
2) Sabre 38 anchored leeward of you. Needs repairs, and new awlgrip, but the guy, like you, decided not to insure(hey, its the other dudes responsibility!). Court decides, your boat broke anchor(despite great skills and equipment), and it's time to shell out the $25k. This is when you will reason, that the other boatowner "did not take action to protect himself by purchasing insurance", and it is not your responsibility.... Think the judge will buy it?
Either way, your screwup was not your responsibility.....
I am cancelling my insurance tomorrow!
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2011
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Gesh!!! We have to pay for "uninsured" motorists. Now are we going to need to pay for "uninsured" boaters also?? Where in the world does it say that I have to take care of your finances??
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  #48  
Old 05-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
... I don't beieve I ever indicated the offending party was not culpable nor, a stated, has anyone definatively determined that the offending party refused responsibility...
You are correct. I think many people commenting on this thread reacted to the offending party repeatedly stating, "I don't have insurance." Whether by this he meant, "I don't have insurance, how the heck am I going to refloat my boat;" or "I don't have insurance, I can't pay for the damage I caused;" is not clear.
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  #49  
Old 05-14-2011
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poster-bjung
Quote:
You state, you don't have insurance for your boat (which by the way is not that expensive..), and your skill and equipment is so superior, there is no chance you will ever damage your boat or others.
Well that' s not quite accurate , this is what I actually posted-

Quote:
I, whom enjoy freedom, and am confident my own abilities, as demonstrated by years of adventuring and traveling safely, would prefer to continue to do so, and feel confident that my children will be free to enjoy the same, unencumbered by govermental intrusion brought by those less bold or able.
I don't see any any reference to "superior" skill or equipment.or any indication that bad fortune could never befall.
But your welcome to your interpretation.

Quote:
But we all know S*** happens while boating, and here are two scenarios:
Your boat damaged the hull of the...
1) Oyster 74 anchored leeward of you. Well, the other guy, with the expensive boat will have insurance to cover for your responsibility. His insurance will go up, but not really your problem...
2) Sabre 38 anchored leeward of you. Needs repairs, and new awlgrip, but the guy, like you, decided not to insure
I don't live in the land of "what if"
But- what if I did?
I don't anchor w/ hazards to leeward. problem averted.

Quote:
Court decides, your boat broke anchor(despite great skills and equipment), and it's time to shell out the $25k. This is when you will reason, that the other boatowner "did not take action to protect himself by purchasing insurance", and it is not your responsibility
there are two (2) issues here that need to be separated, first is the court decision. this is one of the remedies already in place and it works relatively well.
the second is percentage of responsibility and is currently employed by the insuance companies you laud and hold high.
this is where they decide what percentage of responsbilty each party has in an incident or accident. and yes, they place a certain amount on each party,often times just for being in the wrong place at the right time !
Also, I've stated where I feel the clpability clearly lies. I just abhore mandatory ins. requirements after all the centuries of maritime activity.


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Quote:
Gesh!!! We have to pay for "uninsured" motorists. Now are we going to need to pay for "uninsured" boaters also?? Where in the world does it say that I have to take care of your finances??
No, I would prefer you don't "have" to pay . It should be your choice as it is your choice to purchase uninsured motorist ins. whether you "need" to pay should be your decision.
As per my finances,or financial choices, I'll do as I've done for decades -without you or the Gov. "taking care" of my finances.

Again there are an adequate number of legal remedies already in effect to address all liability issue without further gov. mandates/regulation.
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2011
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Gesh!!! We have to pay for "uninsured" motorists. Now are we going to need to pay for "uninsured" boaters also?? Where in the world does it say that I have to take care of your finances??
My understanding is that "uninsured motorist" coverage means that if the guy in the junker crashes into your Mercedes, and he doesn't have the net worth to replace said Mercedes, and no assets you can seize, that you're still going to be made whole. I suspect that if the guy in the junker has any assets, they are forefit (sp?) if he isn't insured. So, that coverage helps you, not him.
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