22' capsizes in James River, 10 go in the drink - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 39 Old 05-18-2011
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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
FWIW, every time I hear a story like this I'm just glad my son got through those years OK.

Will the list members who DIDN'T do dumb crap in their teens please raise their hands. What no hands? Yep, thought so...
Amen.

No matter how good of parents we try to be, kids will occasionally lapse in their judgement. We can just hope and pray they emerge unscathed when that happens.

Heartfelt condolences to the friends and families.....
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post #32 of 39 Old 05-19-2011
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Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
Nate,
I am probably not the only person on the face of the earth that feels that twenty year olds are not operating at the same level of maturity and responsibility as older adults. The American Academy of Pediatrics will confirm this view with a simple Google search confirming that brain function is still developing in early twenties much more similar to teens than to older adults. Look at accident statistics, actuarial science, or any host of other readily available data to confirm that twenty year olds do not operate as a group as cautiously and thoughtfully as older folks.

Calling them "kids" was done paternally, not "infantilising" them. For what it is worth, at their age I was a veteran and squad leader in the Army, my son that age is a NCO. I have been a "bullet proof kid" and have raised the same regardles of how much I try to convince them otherwise. Many of us do not appreciate our mortality until we have put a few more years behind us. That was my only point calling this group "kids." Recognising youth for what it is is a far cry from infantilising them.
I perhaps read something into your earlier post that was not there.

I worry that the more we take away responsibility from individuals, the less they develop. Its a terrible cycle, and for me part of the irresistible draw of the sea is the ideal of an unabridgeable personal responsibility.

Nate
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post #33 of 39 Old 05-19-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
FWIW, every time I hear a story like this I'm just glad my son got through those years OK.

Will the list members who DIDN'T do dumb crap in their teens please raise their hands. What no hands? Yep, thought so...
Agree, I'm glad I made it through those years alive, one of my friends did not. We are all human and make mistakes. If you did not do dumb things like this, you probably are not really living. We could all just stay home and watch TV right?

One thought, maybe they forgot to put down the center board and that made boat unstable.
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post #34 of 39 Old 05-19-2011
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There was an article in today's paper where they found the one missing about a mile downstream. So 2 lost in this tragic accident.
No reason given for the capsize except it's under investigation.
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post #35 of 39 Old 05-19-2011
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capsized boat

thank you to all of you who joined in with more understanding than what I saw in some of the early posts
i wasn't offended by calling them kids--i have kids in their 20's too--i would still call them kids
on the other hand, each one of them chose to step on the boat and chose not to find a vest and either put it on or have it nearby--so I wouldn't put the blame on any one of them in particular; not the owners or operators or anyone else; they were adults in that respect; another 23-year old wouldn't have been able to make them wear a vest.
even so; this is so tragic that it can just stop me cold
those aren't just bad or even crazy-reckless things to do--just not taking the conservative safe route; it was calm weather and water; they all thought they could swim and were just staying in the river--no big open Bay water; there were vests on board--and all of their phones in a dry bag; guess they figured it the boat got into trouble some of them could swim alongside or they'd have plenty of time to get the vests;
then--it went over suddenly; i heard it was a retractable keel--unsteady--once it flipped, it was dark and they tried for a very long time to right it again but couldn't; it was cold and they knew they had to get to shore and couldn't afford to keep trying.
the operator moved from the rudder to the front of the boat to let the girls have privacy to use the bathroom; best guess is that someone pushed the rudder hard to the left or right and tipped the boat suddenly; a mistake; maybe hard to balance and grabbed it to gain her own balance--or maybe a wave jogged it to one side suddenly; not sure anyone will know for sure, but seems the most likely thing that happened.
5 reached shore after swimming for over 3 hours--that's a lot of will power and good determined kids. the others were in groups--and it's not hard to understand that means they had an intimate connection to their two good friends being overtaken by hypothermia and no way to help them.
those 2 boys were health conscious and nice--read their facebook pages; people of all ages praise them for just being NICE--nice to everyone--kids who loved nature, who took walks and hikes and tried to take full advantage of the beautiful outdoors---and in the end--those two--who had no body fat--who were so lean and fit---had zero protection from the cold. i'm thinking they were so fit they probably could have peeled off and made it to shore with the others. wonder why they were so far back---helping the others?
a long and traumatic night, full of big open black quiet water, unable to hear or see their other friends, no way to call for help; the last ones were in the water for almost six long long hours; think about that.
i feel so bad for all of them and I think we're worse off without them; sort of makes you wonder about all those out there who clearly DON'T care about taking care of themselves or anyone else--and how they manage to stay alive
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post #36 of 39 Old 05-19-2011
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It doesn't change the tragic results, and probably any 22 ft. boat with 10 people on board could yield the same result, but the picture of the boat shows it not to be a Cat 22. Instead, it looks more like a MacGregor (Venture 22).
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post #37 of 39 Old 05-20-2011
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It doesn't change the tragic results, and probably any 22 ft. boat with 10 people on board could yield the same result, but the picture of the boat shows it not to be a Cat 22. Instead, it looks more like a MacGregor (Venture 22).

Newspaper said it was a Venture.
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post #38 of 39 Old 05-20-2011
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You may take my statement out of context, but way

I am sorry if I have stepped on your toes. It is absolutely sad when parents have to attend funeral of their child. But yet, it is the responsibility of the parent mind their own children and instill social responsibly in the head in a young age. It is not the school's responsibility.

Partying, drinking and operating a boat is just plain stupid. If this happened to a young man, I blamed the parent. If they love their children, then take care of them away from harm.

In my career for the last 30 years, I have saved and improved the quality of others. I have not lost the humanity in me. In fact, as I grow older my passion in improving the quality of life grows stronger. The is way i have not retired yet because there are so much to do.

Kids don't some very stupid things. because it is not programed in their genes. It is the influence they gain from the surrounding. If you are old enough to have kids, then you are old enough to care for them. Show them the proper way, instills value in their head. Don't blame the government, the internet, or Obama. Take care your own, especially your kids.

Again, I am sorry to step on yours toes. All the best and hope you find peace in your heart.
Rockdawg,
Just curious. Do you always drive the speed limit or below? If you answer is no, what if you ran over a child and you were driving 1 mph over the limit. Should you be held accountable? Have you ever had a child passanger in you car and maybe on a rare occasion not had the proper safety or booster seat but drove the child anyway using a grown up belt? Have you ever driven a car that was not in top shape, maybe the tires were worn, or the conditions (icy) were poor? Have you ever driven when you were tired but thought you really needed to get to where you wanted to go?

We all take risk, mostly we win, but sometimes we loose.
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post #39 of 39 Old 05-20-2011
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I agree with why the name calling. They were young adults and I agree with probably not intoxicated. (read the same bad accident on the SF Bay with a totally sober large family) I have two kids, adult sons 25 and 22 a non-partier and an outdoors type partier that does like a drink. They grew up around boating and they both know that a 22ft sailboat won't hold 10 people, hence they wouldn't have been on it.
This accident happened to some who were/are good adults that made some bad judgments about a boat that never should have more than 7 persons on board if you want to operate the boat and than I feel that is 2 to many.
10 on my 32' is crowded but we can still sit all on one side without it heeling to much due to its 13,000 lbs boat weight and deep keel weight and not just a 2,500 lbs. tub.
My prayers go out to the families that lost their "kids"

Skipper E-J
S/V "Sailmates" 1973 IRWIN 32 Classic

I want to live and sail forever, so far so good[/SIGPIC]
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