Racing is cruising with a purpose... really? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 05-26-2011
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,561
Thanks: 2
Thanked 83 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Half of racing is boat handling skills that can translate into better cruising, like "Can we make landfall before dark?" and "The restaurant has only five dock spaces, if we're number 6 we can't tie up for dinner."

the other half of racing is tactics and rules, and if you want to win you learn to exploit those to the fullest. I don't see any way those translate over into cruising. I expect a fellow racer to clear me with enough room to drop a playing card between hulls, but maybe not a matchbook. Cruising? No one's going to play it that close. Different rules, different game.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 05-26-2011
BubbleheadMd's Avatar
Chastened
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Edgewater/Annapolis
Posts: 2,840
Thanks: 0
Thanked 55 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 5
BubbleheadMd will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to BubbleheadMd
I see this philisophical debate pop up from time to time and I don't really understand it.

Some cruisers feel that racing and racers are reckless in navigation and seamanship, wears out gear and people quickly which adds danger, and they frankly don't understand why someone would want to work so hard during what they feel is supposed to be a relaxing vocation. Cruising is travel and exploration.

Conversely, some die-hard racers feel that cruisers don't learn critical seamanship skills that they might learn by being placed in stressful situations. They also feel that cruisers may be unnecessarily risk-averse, aimless wanderers with big, fat, slow boats that freak out if another sailor comes withing a half nautical mile of their vessel. Racing is a sport, sometimes a team sport, sometimes a solo sport.

These philosophies are not mutually exclusive, but they can be. This debate has no clear-cut answer. I feel that the OP is just trolling, looking for fellow cruisers to join the bash on racers.

If you don't like racing, then don't race. No need to hate on those who do. If you don't like cruising and comfy boats loaded up with furniture, dinghies on davits and jerry jugs on the rail, then let those who do, sail on peacefully.

If you're trying to figure out where I stand in the debate, I'm in the middle. I love racing and I feel that it has taught me critical skills, quickly. I enjoy being part of the team or leading the team if I'm racing my own boat.

But, I also love relaxing, travel and exploring. I enjoy cruising my little Coronado in the Bay to different towns and islands, with no agenda and not being on the clock.

I enjoy stripped-down, one-design, club racing on J-boats, and I also enjoy racing cruisers, loaded with furniture, comfy bunks, stoves, heads, booze and women.

If you want to limit yourself to one philosophy or mode of sailing, that's your business. I'm enjoying all of it.
__________________
S/V Old Shoes
1973 Pearson 30 #255
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 05-26-2011
imagine2frolic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,831
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
imagine2frolic is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
Slightly tangential - when Dan was coaching sailing at the Naval Academy, there were two facets to the program. One group was offshore racing; the other used sailing as a platform to teach seamanship, navigation, small-group leadership. He didn't want to get involved on the racing side because he felt the mindset included cutting very very thin margins, and taking big risks (breaking boats!) for small rewards; and that wasn't a philosophy he wanted to convey to the future naval officers.

Our cruising has been, by contrast, with very wide safety/comfort margins. I want it to be fun and pleasant. No particular rush, because whereever we drop anchor, I'm home because I have my home with me. I don't want to be a great sailor, either; I want to have a great life, while sailing.

Just a cruiser POV with a slow fat comfy sailboat!
Thoughts from a wise man. Cruising is about getting there safely. Where as racing is about getting there a quick as possible.........i2f
__________________
20 MPH ain't fast unless, you do it in a 1000sq 3/2 house on 10foot waves
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


BORROWED, No single one of us is as smart as all of us!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 05-26-2011
wingNwing's Avatar
formerly posting as eryka
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: aboard s/v Cinderella
Posts: 1,123
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
wingNwing is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
I see this philisophical debate pop up from time to time and I don't really understand it.

Some cruisers feel that racing and racers are reckless in navigation and seamanship, wears out gear and people quickly which adds danger, and they frankly don't understand why someone would want to work so hard during what they feel is supposed to be a relaxing vocation. Cruising is travel and exploration.

Conversely, some die-hard racers feel that cruisers don't learn critical seamanship skills that they might learn by being placed in stressful situations. They also feel that cruisers may be unnecessarily risk-averse, aimless wanderers with big, fat, slow boats that freak out if another sailor comes withing a half nautical mile of their vessel. Racing is a sport, sometimes a team sport, sometimes a solo sport.

These philosophies are not mutually exclusive, but they can be. This debate has no clear-cut answer. I feel that the OP is just trolling, looking for fellow cruisers to join the bash on racers.

...
Bubble, nice job of summarizing the two sides of this coin. But, I believe you' may be being unfair to the OP - I know [this person] as a fellow writer, and assume s/he is looking for viewpoints and insights.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cinderella, CSY 33, Photo by Joe McCary

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. - Sidney J. Harris


Shameless self-promotion - my blog for the Annapolis Capital newspaper:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
still has some glitches to be worked out. Until then, I'm posting at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
! And a new project:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 05-26-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,687
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
I did a race last night, blowing 15-25, with only my sons and I. We wen twhat I would call pretty risk free vs 2 weeks ago, when I had 4 others on board. We put up a chute that night, last night we only did a full main and 110 including the run back. We thought about putting up a bigger jib on the way back, said for half to a knot of speed over 3 miles......not worth it. If there would have been 4 folks to raise and drop the jibs.....probably.

If I had been out with wife, I would have been one or two reefs in main, along with 110. Not a lot slower, but would have been slower in sped, but more upright. With sons on board, one was ALWAYS playing with the main sheet, We were setup for the light winds, and bailed the main during the gusts, where as with wife, and cruisers if you will, they would be setup for the max gust, and be under sailed if you will in the lulls. Where as when racing, you will be able to be at max sail with someone manning the sheets more.

No different than I find skiing. Been teaching for 30+ years, I REALLY learned to ski better when I started teaching, then took some racing classes, did some week night stuff. THEN I REALLY learned to ski etc, until then, I was pretty good, but not great if you will. Or one could us OK, then got GOOD! Sailing has been the same, I've sailed as a teen, some racing, more as an adult over the last 4 yrs after a 20 some odd year hiatus sailing, now thru racing, figuring out what makes the boat go fast, which sometime equates to a flatter more comfortable boat, I am a better sailor!

Marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 05-26-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,370
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
puddinlegs is on a distinguished road
The idea that racers are dangerous, inclined to breaking things just to get a 1/4 kt more out of the boat, etc... is silly. Sure, you push the boat and over time get to know how it will respond to certain sea states, wind ranges, etd... In all of my racing experience, everything from dingy sailing to mini maxis, I've yet to meet an owner who thinks breaking gear and risking the crews' lives is appropriate. One huge benefit of racing is understanding how to make boats go in light air. Gear breaks when the boat and/or crew isn't prepped properly. It's also great to get on a boat with sometimes 2-3 hundred years of collective experience. Most of the folks we race with have thousands of miles of offshore experience both racing and cruising. Naval ships and risks? US Naval ships take huge highly calculated risks, but through preparation, skill, and experience, perform in ways that other blue water navies are only able to dream about.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 05-27-2011 at 04:11 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 05-26-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,687
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
............. Naval ships and risks? US Naval ships take huge highly calculated risks, but through preparation, skill, and experience, and perform in ways that other blue water navies are only able to dream about.
Reality is, substitute Racers for navy, and you also have what sometimes occurs on racing boats too.

Then also like 2 weeks ago, got knocked down, someone was not ready to release a spin sheet as it was tied down when the spin went up, gust hit, over we went! We did not double check things as we should have! This can happen to any one, any where!

I also do not like breaking things. which reminds me, we had a shackle for the tack line not work a couple of years ago, kids used a shortened tether for a modified tack to do the down wind leg to the finish, dead last mind you! but they finished first race with out me on board! I managed to unknot the tether the other day. pretty proud of myself! Forgot to tell sons the other night!

Pushing one self, no matter the "item" or "WHAT", will always if done in reasonable increases of hardness, ie local beer can racing on a light wind day vs just going out for a sail, will slowly make you a better sailor! as will running gates skiing, as you HAVE to turn at the gates, same with racing, you HAVE to go around that buoy, CG can or equal turn point. Current/wind condition be danged! You can not turn on the iron genny.

I posted the pics of me sailing into our slip last week on the jeanneau owners site, as with here on the great sail thread smack has. One person said he had NEVER had his boat under sail with in 500' much less yds/meters of the dock! He is not sure he could sail a boat to the dock if the motor died. Granted he has a 50' boat, and is buying a 57! with Joysitck controls on his new Jeanneau........even still......I learned this as a teen in an 8' pram with no motor, so no other choice......Could you do this? be you a racer or cruiser?


Marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 05-26-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,370
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
puddinlegs is on a distinguished road
Don't know if you're asking me directly Marty, but yes, I've sailed in and out not too long after we bought the boat before re-powering. Having done it a lot in dingies and Pearson Ensigns as a kid, so I wasn't worried all too much. The boat is relatively light, and handles very well in tight spaces under power or sail.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 05-27-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,687
Thanks: 0
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Mark,

No not asking you directly! but with that in mind, good to know when and if one can do these crazy things. I personally feel, racer or cruiser should be able to do what the other can, in equal conditions etc. Maybe not as fast due to crew size, ie 6 or 7 on board my boat racing vs spouse and I cruising......but we should be able to do the same in the same winds etc.


Now with that......are you "mark" doing the styc cruise to bremerton when the time comes? If so, see you there, will be in P50, first south slip in mid dock with Edmonds YC. Will have pirate flag up in moniker! lOL

marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 05-27-2011
Sublime's Avatar
Quirky
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North Texas
Posts: 536
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Sublime is on a distinguished road
I think racing vs cruising debate is just a product of how dynamic sailing is. I challenge anyone to name a sport that covers such a broad spectrum from relaxing to exhilarating.

Cruising has a purpose too, just like racing. For me, the purpose of cruising is to relax, take in the sights, smells, and sounds...chat with friends and family and just have a good time.

Racing will highlight things you need to improve on. You can certainly learn a lot losing a race. And what's not to love about squeezing every bit of speed out of a boat you can?

There's a purpose in mind any time someone takes a boat out no matter what they're doing. It might not be your idea of "purpose" and that's just a salute to what an all encompassing sport sailing is.
__________________
This post is made from recycled electrons

A ship in harbor is safe, but that's not why ships are built.

My girls:
1974 Alcort Minifish-Minifish
2001 Drascombe Lugger-Penelope
2004 Hunter 260-Miss Muffet
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Racing vs Cruising boat control Barquito Learning to Sail 12 06-11-2010 02:50 PM
Advise on transitioning from racing to cruising bslook General Discussion (sailing related) 10 08-31-2009 08:18 PM
Long Distance on a Cal 20, Racing and Cruising Jim H General Discussion (sailing related) 7 08-03-2008 03:18 AM
what''s a good cruising AND racing boat ulli Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 01-17-2004 06:44 PM
Lake Travis Cruising / Racing cat30lt Crew Wanted/Available 2 08-28-2003 12:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:37 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.