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  #21  
Old 06-16-2011
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Peg you need a first mate find me lol !

Like all said the wind speed isnt the end of the world , you could hold up your palm faceing the wind and get an indication as to relitive speed with pratice.

My first biplane had a spring bent like an L pinned in center and on bottom with a 2" square plate faceing foward & that was my windspeed for take off & landing !
l0l the slow end had a turtle pic on it and the fast end had a rabbit pic on it
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2011
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You have a surprisingly accurate wind speed indicator available to you. It is called your face.

Learn to use it, know at what point you need to reef and learn to look upwind for potential changes in windspeed. No wind indicator can do that for you.

Oh yes never had a windspeed indicator on any boat I have owned. Coming up for 9 years as a liveaboard Atlantic cruiser.
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2011
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Peg, if the issue is truly so small as just the wind indicator, insist on it having it fixed since it bothers you so. Me personally, it ranks so low on the list that it will wait till the next haul out rather than climb the mast for just that. On the other hand, since it wasn't properly surveyed to your knowledge, the mast head and rigging needs a good look over. With that said, I know without needing to ask that I'll be the one swinging in the bosun's chair, while my wife stays below on deck.

If, instead, the question is more a general disquiet about maintenance and upkeep, you really do have to put your foot down. If it isn't improving daily, it's decaying and only a matter of time before she joins the miserable rotting hulls that line the docks.

Last, one person's "conservative" is another's "you're out of your mind!" Scaring the beejeez out of your guests can be fun, but only when they ask. May I suggest a compromise for you? Let him know before you leave the dock what kind of ride you want. Some days, ask him to show you what she can do in a blow. Other days, let him know you want a quiet picnic.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWhy View Post
...If it isn't improving daily, it's decaying and only a matter of time before she joins the miserable rotting hulls that line the docks...
Do you think that's a little extreme? The boat's <10 years old.

Yes, there are many issues revealed here about owner's competence and leadership skills, but unless he takes care of those he will likely sell the boat long before it's a rotting hull.

BTW, C28MkII is a GREAT cruising boat. I almost bought one last year.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glimmerglasspeg View Post
So when he brought up the wind speed indicator, and I suggested to him that really, everything should be up and running before the boat is moved from its mooring near the repair shop to its harbor mooring, the retort was a real blow. He eventually "said" all you need to do is sail conservatively - which he never does...
The biggest issue is this isn't your boat. If it was you could just fix whatever it is you wanted fixing before you headed off. But since it's "his boat", your input isn't worth squat to him.

You're never going to be comfortable on a long trip with him.
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2011
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I'll echo others on the indicator being a non issue. I sail on an inland lake, so all I really have is a windex. I don't have a working knot meter, depth sounder, (have it but not installed yet) compass, apparent wind indicator, GPS....etc, etc, etc. No, I have only my little windex up top and even that I don't look at very much.

This is my first sailboat and I'm learning to sail. I'm doing it all by feel...I sense where the wind is on my face, steer accordingly, trim the sails to the telltales....I "feel" the boat, the rudder, the wind...and listen to the sails. For me, it makes the whole experience so much richer as I become one with the boat and the lake. Try it....forget the doodads....get "into" your boat and sail her!

All that other stuff is nice to have, but we've been sailing for 1000+ years now and most of that time was without all the gadgets.

Now, if I was out on the coast I'd for sure have a compass, depth sounder at a minimum...knot meter would be nice...but between the compass, my eyes and a good chart, I'll be fine. Sure, a chartplotter, radar, etc, etc, etc, would be nice...but not necessary.
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  #27  
Old 06-16-2011
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Oh, I accept and would now be just fine with a handheld, or other methods suggested above. But right now, we haven't even gotten around to discussing the wind speed indicator since yesterday before I asked the question, because he continued to tear into me via e-mail, and I frankly, had had enough. I haven't even had the chance to discuss what I found.

In the past, for the few sails we had together, even during our courses, it was something referred to often - by both of us - in my mind probably to gauge if it was getting too rough for us - Maine can have some serious winds, or of course, we've been caught in irons on the wrong side of an island, and in addition to every other natural indicator, we'd probably glance over to see if we were in the area of any puffs. And for me it was probably to justify asking him to take it easy, or ask if we could take down the mainsail or gib, while for him, to be able to tell his stories about how bad they were. When it died last year, it was on the punch list for the winter.

And I'll say few sails as the 1st year he hardly sailed - he didn't adequately secure her before a storm, the gib broke loose, and did a serious number on the boat - so for half the summer it was in the shop - let alone this was after the engine repairs that were addressed after it overheated during trip #1 - several water lines had to be replaced, I believe.

Season 2 he was on it a few times, there were more issues with getting water lines and tanks resolved - but I was hardly on it at all due to weather and schedules, and his conveniently not feeling like it the 2 or 3 times when I was available and the conditions were right.

I have always been very even tempered about this boat - I don't ask - it is not my boat even though he clearly boasted he "got it for us". He doesn't rationally discuss sailing, just in glowing terms, or melodrama - I can do charts, although we usually use the GPS, so am consulted for directions when sailing, but I can have no say in what he wishes to do for her, and don't want to. I figure he's probably beating himself up enough about the issues she has, and which he's contributed to. I would love to have her surveyed, but he won't hear of it - doesn't "need" to spend the money.

Only twice have I taken issue - during maiden voyage #1 with "expert" "Buddy" - and I finally just went down below in fear and frustration as they tried to get us back in one piece with no systems in heavy fog - this guy was supposed to be an expert, and he was useless - he hardly looked while extolling his GPS until the batteries went - while we inched ahead, avoiding tankers and lobster boats in the area - even the harbor captain exclaimed he couldn't believe we went out in those conditions - and #2 - after dealing with "Buddy's" disparaging attitude towards women, I just won't be around when he is if possible.

So this is season #3, I've just had a pleasant week with SO including lots of talk by him of our sails together.

Yesterday morning he said the work was almost done - but they didn't fix the windspeed indicator - announced we didn't need it with no rationale why - I questioned his reasoning - received the super nasty e-mail, saying it would be ok if we sailed conservatively (which he doesn't do at all) - then adding all the name calling. It was way over the top.

He has a pattern of dropping the ball in having many things repaired -in his house, his former office building, his car, his office equipment (that was part of my responsibilites) - you can never talk to him about things broken. He argued with me for wanting to get my lawn mower blades sharpened at the beginning of the season! He has a roof that leaks like a sieve, and I also am a former claims adjuster and realtor, with some valid observations that should be checked, but he dismisses them.

But this is a boat to be sailed on the sea - not a leaking roof that I can walk away from, nor a broken toilet that if he doesn't want to fix it in his house, is no skin off my nose. When I told him it was best to get everything done now before it's sailed from the shop - I took a chance standing up to him because I envisioned another summer of moaning and groaning about stuff being left undone, and if he really was serious about all the sailing he wanted us to do, I needed to know the boat was safe. If he had offered the simple explanations and suggestions you all have, you're right - this would never have been an issue.

So that's why I'm cooling my heels right now, and planning other stuff for the summer, including possibly getting my stuff out of his house.

It wasn't just about the windspeed indicator - it was the huge over-reaction to my trying to prompt him to have everything ready - I mean, that's what anyone I've ever known has tried to do with their boats at the beginning of the year. Do it right.

In the past, I have also done what I could by pointing him to this site, he has a new YC membership, and suggesting he have someone else other than "Buddy" go sailing with him as crew. He has strongly agreed, yet has never followed up on it.

I even had a heart to heart with him last fall as he constantly accuses me of not wanting to sail, when what I want to do is sail safely, and with enjoyment. I know he likes to go fast, and that's fine for me within reason, but I also tried to paint for him the picture of us just gliding along watching a beautiful sunset, or enjoying lunch or beverages - the romance sailing affords, rather than take turns while the other eats so we can get there faster!

You have all been great - very supportive - we will wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath. This is a silly issue, but I'm tired of being kicked.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2011
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It sounds to me at a guess that you are both as novices suffering from anxiety. You seem to think that if there are no boat problems, things would be safer. That ain't quite so. Firstly all boats pretty well have some problems, or are about to - even brand new ones. Secondly according to sod's law if something can go wrong it may well. Then there are issues like sheets catching, or even being caught in irons which you mentioned. These are routine, and one handles them.
Being reliant on a wind gauge would not add to your safety. The primary things are forecasts, and eyeballs. You should be able to read the clouds and see how the upper layers are moving and the sea state. You also know how the boat is reacting to the wind. If it is starting to get overpowered you know how to flatten the sails and reef quickly because you have learned and practised it. And no dropping a sail is not how you do it.
If the wind is beyond your capacity reefed then there are ways of handling that for a squall, or by taking shelter. However the best way is not to go out when such conditions are forecast.
Someone told me that it takes doing something 30x to have it reasonably pat. I suggest that new skippers and crew get that experience in shorter trips in good conditions. You want to reduce not increase anxiety as competence and confidence are built.
Forget the fog thing. It sounds like a major error of judgment and raises a query about the advisor. On the other hand you have not yet run aground. Most likely you will touch bottom at some point.
As for the S.O. Some men are handymen. Most of us are not, though boats can tend to force us to develop skills and knowledge to some degree. I note you say neither of you are particularly obsessive. Most of us are not and forget things. I even forgot the frozen food once.
I suspect he is aware of his lack of practical skills and is probably anxious himself.
Instead of berating each other publically or privately I suggest you start by accepting the other person's strengths and weaknesses and start communicating. Then you might find a way to resolve the real issues. At the moment I suspect he is hearing he is useless and incompetent, and you are hearing you are nagging and being unreasonable. There may be some truth in both parts but that isn't the whole story and it makes for defensiveness and aggression rather than problem solving.
PS. Has he joined sailnet yet? It is a useful resource but I doubt he would be thrilled with venting domestic issues.
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2011
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Well.....sounds to me.....like the boat isn't the problem here.

Just keep in mind, if you seek relationship advice on the Internet, you're not likely to get any valuable help, as people with no vested interest will be more than happy to pipe up with "tough guy" attitudes and misguided advice due to only hearing one side of the story.

Forget the Internet and put the boat on hold. You have more serious, pressing problems to solve right now. Get your butts (both of you) to a good counselor before any serious, irreparable damage is done.
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glimmerglasspeg View Post
Oh, I accept and would now be just fine with a handheld, or other methods suggested above. But right now, we haven't even gotten around to discussing the wind speed indicator since yesterday before I asked the question, because he continued to tear into me via e-mail, and I frankly, had had enough. I haven't even had the chance to discuss what I found.

In the past, for the few sails we had together, even during our courses, it was something referred to often - by both of us - in my mind probably to gauge if it was getting too rough for us - Maine can have some serious winds, or of course, we've been caught in irons on the wrong side of an island, and in addition to every other natural indicator, we'd probably glance over to see if we were in the area of any puffs. And for me it was probably to justify asking him to take it easy, or ask if we could take down the mainsail or gib, while for him, to be able to tell his stories about how bad they were. When it died last year, it was on the punch list for the winter.

And I'll say few sails as the 1st year he hardly sailed - he didn't adequately secure her before a storm, the gib broke loose, and did a serious number on the boat - so for half the summer it was in the shop - let alone this was after the engine repairs that were addressed after it overheated during trip #1 - several water lines had to be replaced, I believe.

Season 2 he was on it a few times, there were more issues with getting water lines and tanks resolved - but I was hardly on it at all due to weather and schedules, and his conveniently not feeling like it the 2 or 3 times when I was available and the conditions were right.

I have always been very even tempered about this boat - I don't ask - it is not my boat even though he clearly boasted he "got it for us". He doesn't rationally discuss sailing, just in glowing terms, or melodrama - I can do charts, although we usually use the GPS, so am consulted for directions when sailing, but I can have no say in what he wishes to do for her, and don't want to. I figure he's probably beating himself up enough about the issues she has, and which he's contributed to. I would love to have her surveyed, but he won't hear of it - doesn't "need" to spend the money.

Only twice have I taken issue - during maiden voyage #1 with "expert" "Buddy" - and I finally just went down below in fear and frustration as they tried to get us back in one piece with no systems in heavy fog - this guy was supposed to be an expert, and he was useless - he hardly looked while extolling his GPS until the batteries went - while we inched ahead, avoiding tankers and lobster boats in the area - even the harbor captain exclaimed he couldn't believe we went out in those conditions - and #2 - after dealing with "Buddy's" disparaging attitude towards women, I just won't be around when he is if possible.

So this is season #3, I've just had a pleasant week with SO including lots of talk by him of our sails together.

Yesterday morning he said the work was almost done - but they didn't fix the windspeed indicator - announced we didn't need it with no rationale why - I questioned his reasoning - received the super nasty e-mail, saying it would be ok if we sailed conservatively (which he doesn't do at all) - then adding all the name calling. It was way over the top.

He has a pattern of dropping the ball in having many things repaired -in his house, his former office building, his car, his office equipment (that was part of my responsibilites) - you can never talk to him about things broken. He argued with me for wanting to get my lawn mower blades sharpened at the beginning of the season! He has a roof that leaks like a sieve, and I also am a former claims adjuster and realtor, with some valid observations that should be checked, but he dismisses them.

But this is a boat to be sailed on the sea - not a leaking roof that I can walk away from, nor a broken toilet that if he doesn't want to fix it in his house, is no skin off my nose. When I told him it was best to get everything done now before it's sailed from the shop - I took a chance standing up to him because I envisioned another summer of moaning and groaning about stuff being left undone, and if he really was serious about all the sailing he wanted us to do, I needed to know the boat was safe. If he had offered the simple explanations and suggestions you all have, you're right - this would never have been an issue.

So that's why I'm cooling my heels right now, and planning other stuff for the summer, including possibly getting my stuff out of his house.

It wasn't just about the windspeed indicator - it was the huge over-reaction to my trying to prompt him to have everything ready - I mean, that's what anyone I've ever known has tried to do with their boats at the beginning of the year. Do it right.

In the past, I have also done what I could by pointing him to this site, he has a new YC membership, and suggesting he have someone else other than "Buddy" go sailing with him as crew. He has strongly agreed, yet has never followed up on it.

I even had a heart to heart with him last fall as he constantly accuses me of not wanting to sail, when what I want to do is sail safely, and with enjoyment. I know he likes to go fast, and that's fine for me within reason, but I also tried to paint for him the picture of us just gliding along watching a beautiful sunset, or enjoying lunch or beverages - the romance sailing affords, rather than take turns while the other eats so we can get there faster!

You have all been great - very supportive - we will wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath. This is a silly issue, but I'm tired of being kicked.
Beats me why he puts up with you really!
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