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-   -   What is your tightest angle to sail between close haul? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/75801-what-your-tightest-angle-sail-between-close-haul.html)

rockDAWG 06-30-2011 09:50 PM

What is your tightest angle to sail between close haul?
 
Between port tack and starboard tack in a close haul,

1. What is the smallest angle you have ever achieved?
2. What are the factors that may increase the angle

I have experienced the angle from 120 degrees to as much as 180 degrees, it make sense to me. But that was what I observed. In theory, it should be just 90 degrees, I don't mind to settle for 100 degrees. But not 120 degree or more.

Am I missing something here?

SlowButSteady 06-30-2011 09:56 PM

If I really try hard, and don't listen the the Admiral about the wet/rough ride, I manage to tack through just about 90 degrees relative to the apparent wind. Of course, depending on the wind strength and sea state, that translates to somewhere between 100 to 120 degrees relative to the true wind.

BarryL 06-30-2011 10:22 PM

Hello,

Just about any boat should be able to point about 45 degrees off the apparent wind. However, that doesn't mean you are actually SAILING that close to the wind. For example, my O'day 35 has a shoal draft and a fixed 3 blade prop. If I try to point very high, the boat makes a lot of leeway and basically slides sideways. The shoal draft keel prevents my boat from sailing at high angles. About the best I can do is 50 degrees (tacking about 100 degrees).

A boat that I race on, an early 80's C&C 34 with a deep draft keel sails much closed to the wind. That boat can point at about 35 degrees apparent (about 45 degrees true) and actually sails that high.

I do not profess to be an expert, but things that affect how high you can sail are the keel, rudder, prop (less drag allows you to sail higher), sails, and hull shape.

If the bottom of your boat is foul with growth, your sails old and bagged out, and a traveler that doesn't work right, you are never going to be able to sail high.

Clean the bottom, make sure your foils are clean and in good condition, check your sails. When sailing as close to the wind as possible, make sure you trim the headsail in as tight as possible, and after the main sheet is as tight as possible, use the traveler to get the main up to center. That's about as good as your boat will do.

Barry

jackdale 06-30-2011 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockDAWG (Post 746040)
Between port tack and starboard tack in a close haul,

1. What is the smallest angle you have ever achieved?
2. What are the factors that may increase the angle

I have experienced the angle from 120 degrees to as much as 180 degrees, it make sense to me. But that was what I observed. In theory, it should be just 90 degrees, I don't mind to settle for 100 degrees. But not 120 degree or more.

Am I missing something here?

What type of boat? Keel? Sail Plan?

The worst for me was a Seawolf 30; full keel, unbattened mail, bagged sails. Tacked through 120 degrees.

Best was a C&C 35, fin keel, new sails. Tacked through about 70 degrees.

Ilenart 07-01-2011 07:45 AM

Another big factor is the sea state. Any waves are going to significantly knock your pointing ability. In open water 10-15kts winds in a couple of hours will easily create waves that will knock 10 degrees from your pointing ability.

This thread here is bascially talking about the same subject.

Ilenart

SVAuspicious 07-01-2011 07:53 AM

Using decades of racing experience (not all mine - I have had some great sail trimmers aboard including racer JonD and Quantum sail guy Dave Flynn) I can tweak my HR40 to about 30 apparent. I tack through about 90 true.

The biggest deal on my boat is using enough backstay tension to get headstay sag down to about four or five inches. YMMV.

blt2ski 07-01-2011 08:09 AM

As said, depends upon the boat, There are two in my club that out point me, and I can get within 75-80* tack in true and 65-75 apparent with a 110 up. Most of the time, add about 5-10* to these numbers.

marty

tweitz 07-01-2011 08:19 AM

I think Barry L makes an excellent point. One can sail and tack at 45 degrees to the apparent wind, but if you were to look at the course on the chartplotter, it would appear to be a far more obtuse angle. Not to be obtuse about it, a large part of that is leeway, where you lose the most when closest to the wind. Since I have a lifting keel, it is really apparent when I am too lazy to lower the keel, and the difference in leeway is dramatic. When people talk about how close to the wind they sail, they are usually talking apparent wind, and not actual.

zz4gta 07-01-2011 09:13 AM

120*? Might want to tune the old rig, add some outhaul tension, move the jib cars back one, and put on more backstay. Make sure the boom is on center. 120* would take you forever to get to windward.

J36ZT 07-01-2011 10:47 AM

Just less than 60-degrees (28-29 degrees off the apparent wind); that was with crew in 12-15 knots of wind on flat waters. I haven't thought to actually measure the angle on the GPS (heat of the moment and all). I regularly tack 30-35 degrees off the wind.

There are many factors that come into play in determining how high a boat can point. Besides re-designing the boat, spending lots of money on new sails and gear, and having lots of "rail meat" in the right place; anything that causes drag and slows the boat down is really all you can control.

...Yep, narrow pointing angles are what J36s were made for. Well, that and speed.

Skipper,
J/36 "Zero Tolerance"


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