Is it worth the trouble to take a "NEW" deilivery in Europe ? - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-05-2011 Thread Starter
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Is it worth the trouble to take a "NEW" deilivery in Europe ?

Just wondering if I will save money by ordering a U.S. Spec new boat in Europe and sail her back to U.S.

Here are what I am thinking:
1. I assume that I don't need to pay VAT
2. Get it cheaper since there is no post sell service need from dealer, I just need to the worldwide warranty from the original manufacture.
3. I will save the freight from Europe
4. Give me a chance to go to Europe and play there a few week before heading back
5. Will I able to get insurance?
6. Although time is money, but I think it is justifiable for the experience alone.

Your wisdom is needed.

P.S. The targeted boat is either Jeanneau 409 or 379.


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post #2 of 18 Old 07-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Just wondering if I will save money by ordering a U.S. Spec new boat in Europe and sail her back to U.S.

Here are what I am thinking:
1. I assume that I don't need to pay VAT
2. Get it cheaper since there is no post sell service need from dealer, I just need to the worldwide warranty from the original manufacture.
3. I will save the freight from Europe
4. Give me a chance to go to Europe and play there a few week before heading back
5. Will I able to get insurance?
6. Although time is money, but I think it is justifiable for the experience alone.

Your wisdom is needed.

P.S. The targeted boat is either Jeanneau 409 or 379.
1. Yes but what about US Sales Tax ? if I was to import a boat into Australia I still have to pay GST (our version of VAT) and that is calculated on landed cost even if I sail the boat back here myself.

2. Yes.

3. Yes. I guess that wear and tear on an Atlantic crossing should be considered but thats a low cost to pay for the experience surely ?

4. Yay !!

5. I don't know but would think yes.

6. Yay agin ... sod the time, think of the enjoyment.

re wisdom ... yes it is needed and if you come across the bugger please send him back to me.

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

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post #3 of 18 Old 07-05-2011
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#5. You will need to show decent experience for a boat this size, and being offshore in it. Qualifications and crew are mandatory for most offshore..Ins Co. may require captain and crew to join you for all or part of the trip.

You better check closely with your insurance...I know people with 40's who can't get insurance to leave Chesapeake Bay at affordable rates...and know what it covers and does not cover
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-05-2011
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Sales tax in MD would be necessary either way, even if purchased in the US. You would also have an import tariff, which you would also pay if you imported through a US dealer.

Other than the really cool experience, I'm not sure I would do it this way. Much of what you would want to commission on a boat of that size can and should be done in the US. Some are better equip than the manufacturer, others are just better spec'd to US power requirements (110v). You also lose the relationship with a local dealer who wants you to remain happy.

That said, I've dealt with your local Jeanneau dealer, Bay Yacht Agency, and consider them worse than used car dealers. There are several other Jeanneau dealers that I think are outstanding and would work outside the Bay, if I were you.


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post #5 of 18 Old 07-05-2011 Thread Starter
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I may bring it into NC for better sale tax advantage. I will talk to my accountant for sure. It is likely that the boat will be in the Company (LLC) name. Every time I use the boat, I will pay the fair market leasing rate to the LLC. The LLC will take the depreciation and loss of the boat if any. I will have at less six months to work this out.

When I order the boat, it will be in the U.S. Specs. The problem is I am not sure if I can find a local dealer that I will be happy with. In the past, I ordered all my cars through internet. Unless it is for warranty work, I don't take my cars to the dealer. I don't expect I will take my boat to the boat yard either.

I may be over spoken, most techs I have encountered over the last 35 years were not that bright. Many are lack of critical thinking skills to solve their problem at work. I hate to teach them how to think and still have to pay the dealer $125 an hour. A couple hrs in the internet or 30 min reading the technical manual, I usually can find the solution.

Yea, I agree with you. My limited experience with Bay Yacht Agency, I was not impressed so far. And I will treat them as such, get my best deal if I can, if not, I walk.

But don't get me wrong, I do appreciate good service, and willing to pay more. I enjoy dining at the 4 or 5 star restaurants because it is worth the money.

Taking European delivery has to make sense at the bottom line. Sailing her back to the States is just a bonus.

I know of at least one Caption on Sailnet did this. I hope he will chime in later with his experience.


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post #6 of 18 Old 07-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
....When I order the boat, it will be in the U.S. Specs.....
Jeanneau can certainly fit her out to US specs, however, your choices will be extremely limited compared to a state side yard. Depending on how fitted out you intend, there will be some things you just can't have installed in France.

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Yea, I agree with you. My limited experience with Bay Yacht Agency, I was not impressed so far. And I will treat them as such, get my best deal if I can, if not, I walk.
I'm really trying to behave, but I grew to dislike and completely distrust Bay Yacht. They lied and applied outrageous pressure to send them money or they wouldn't answer questions about mistakes they made on a bid. They also claimed I wouldn't get a hull for 9 months if I didn't order right now. 6 months later, their hull in inventory was still available. I could add more. Rudy..... totally useless. Eric Smith..... would be considered unethical by a used car salesman that specializes in peddling sunken Hurricane Katrina cars.

I'll stop. My point is that the right price should not distract you. Commissioning a brand new imported boat can be more complicated that building a new house. You will send huge checks along the way and not actually have a boat to show for it yet. You better trust who you are dealing with.


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post #7 of 18 Old 07-05-2011 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the heads up. It looks like I don't need to waste my time there. Oh wait, I still need to go there and take a closer look of the new 409 and 379, then I order my bait from other place. hahaha.

Regarding other 3rd party equipment, can I install them after I take the delivery the boat in the U.S. You may be right, some of the equipment may be needed for the voyage home.

BTW, i have a few questions

1. How do you like Jeanneau in a rough sea, pounding? I understand that your boat is much bigger than I am considering.
2. Have you considered a full keel before you decided for a Jeanneau?
3. How is the interior handing up? I do worry about the IKEA like furniture quality, and will it hold up or will it fall apart in 5 years?

TIA


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post #8 of 18 Old 07-05-2011
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1. We've found our Jeanneau to be very seaworthy. We often find ourselves saying, "she don't care". Long story on that phrase, but it comes out when she takes what she is dealt. Just a few weeks ago, we had her double reefed in near 30 kts while she sailed very comfortably on a close reach.

2. Nope. We picked this design for her sailing ability and layout.

3. Unfortunately, I understand your concern. The 54DS was only made for about 5 or 6 years and was their flagship at the time. It is all real teak inside and the quality of everything from seacocks to doorknobs is higher than what they build today. Mine is now 6 years old. The story is that France banned the import of teak from non sustainable harvesters. When Jeanneau and Benneteau couldn't get enough, they went to the less expensive "manufactured" teak. In the process, they also went less expensive on the rest of the boat to be a stronger price competitor.


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post #9 of 18 Old 07-06-2011
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Europe is a big place where were you thinking of leaving from?

If it is Northern France crossing Biscay ON A SCHEDULE can get you beaten up badly.

Also the leg from Portugal to the Canaries can be rough if you get the timing wrong.

But if you can wait for good weather windows and leave the canaries when the trades are established [ January usually ] you should havbe a great downhill sail to the USA - ENJOY!
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post #10 of 18 Old 07-06-2011
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rockdawg, understanding that this is mostly an economic decision for you, I think you will find the Euro will kill most of that advantage. From what I understand the US Jeanneaus are built at the SC plant. Also, dealing with the french over the phone after you are having issues may be frustrating....
I have also contemplated purchasing a used vessel in Europe, to cruise there and subsequently sail back. But something more wholesome than the 409.
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