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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 07-07-2011
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I’ve seen lots of things done as well but that doesn’t mean that I would do them.

I know what you are intending to say but these days I would be very wary about what could happen down the road. Intentions don’t mean a lot if the legal system gets involved. Why chance it over a $500-$1,000 item?
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2011
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Be cautious of the idea of offering a fixed % off the asking price. Many boats are up for sale at totally unrealistic [high] prices. Why, well the owners are trying to get back what they paid or what they owe the bank.

I paid little more that half the price my boat was originally advertised for.

Get a sense of what it is actually worth allowing for repairs/upgrades and what they are actually selling for in todays buyers market.

I am ex motor trade so maybe think a little differently when haggling. I would never be insulted by a low offer it is just a starting point.

ALSO REMEMBER if on survey and seatrial issues turn up the price can and SHOULD be renegotiated.

Last edited by TQA; 07-07-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2011
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I sold our Catalina 22 in December. I tried very hard to price the boat realistically. I surveyed all the C22's that were on the market at 5+ websites that were +/- 5 years in age comparied to our boat, made a plot of asking price and age, consulted NADA (always low about 10-15%, I believe), tax assessor's value, and BUC.net (used by many boat dealers). So my boat was priced fairly. I asked $14,200, and sold it for $13,500, but did include a bottom paint job that I had hoped to avoid. I believe is was a fair deal for both buyer and seller. I had offers also at $5,000, and $3,500. Both of these could be considered an insult, but it's only a stupid offer from someone who didn't know the value, or who hoped to take advantage of someone who might be needing to sell....I didn't. But the strange part is, it wasn't me who got angry. The guy that offered $3,500 went bonkers that I wouldn't take his offer.
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2011
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I just got back from helping my buddy bring back an Endevor 37 ketch from Salem MA to Canada. He is very shy about "bargaining" and asked my advice (We lived in Taiwan for a number of years, bargaining is a social event for me). I suggested a price he thought was nuts but went with it, subject to an acceptable survey and acceptable sea trials. My buddy paid for a good survey, as he should have. The seller accepted the offer and the conditions. There were a few fixable problems with the survey and the surveyor gave a "fair current market value" less than my friend's offer. Again, he asked my advice (silly him). I said, re-offer what the surveyor said was "fair current market value". The buyer accepted and my friend has a fixable boat that he likes. The difference has partially been used already with other minor things that have turned up faulty.

Just my two cents worth.

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  #15  
Old 07-07-2011
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Don't get emotionally wrapped up in whether the seller will be insulted, get practical. If you want to take a chance at being able to steal the boat, then risk bidding very low. You may not be able to be buy it at all, if it doesn't work. Some stories above confirm this.

If you want to get a reasonable deal, then bid a tad below what you are willing to pay and be prepared to negotiate. If that insults the seller, you might as well walk, you aren't getting the boat.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadio917 View Post
We're using the sellers broker.
And this is why he told you not to lowball them.

Think about it.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2011
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Here in BC, most buyers use the sellers broker. The main reason is that brokers are reluctant to share commission with a broker from another company. It is what it is.

When I worked as a broker, I used to advise vendors to consider what other boats of the same length and condition were selling for, when they set an asking price.

I used to advise buyers to do the same type of research. If their offer was based on serious research (and an honest assessment of the boat's condition), I had no problem presenting an offer that was significantly lower than asking. If nothing else, it gave me a chance to ask the vendor if they still thought that their asking price was realistic.

I always advised against submitting low ball offers as negotiating tactics. Usually both seller and buyer insulted each other.

So, I would advise basing your offer on market research and an honest assessment of the boat's condition--specifically, how much are you going to have to put in to it. The seller may not like it, but it is an honest offer.
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Old 07-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailjunkie View Post
Here in BC, most buyers use the sellers broker. The main reason is that brokers are reluctant to share commission with a broker from another company.......
Around my parts, 10% is the standard commission, split in half if there are two brokers. Not enough boats are selling for any of them to think twice about splitting it. However, if the selling broker has a direct client bidding against a client that has to split commission, the selling broker themselves has some negotiating power with the owner, as they can lower their commission a little bit and still come out ahead. This is on the very narrow margin of within 5%, of course.

Quote:
The seller may not like it, but it is an honest offer.
This is the ultimate answer. If you make an honest offer, it really doesn't matter whether it insults the seller. If it isn't near what the seller wants, then it isn't worth spending much more time on it. If you want to try to steal the boat at a huge discount, then go ahead and give it a shot, however, you may not be able to retreat to an honest offer. This risk v reward decision is in the buyer's hands.

Personally, if I'm serious and want the boat, I bid honestly, even if a small margin below what I might be willing to pay. Sellers expect it isn't your best offer, so leave a few dollars to negotiate. I also ask for non-monetary concessions to bring my offer up.... ie timing, or other accommodations like using their slip while I arrange transport.
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Old 07-08-2011
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So the seller's broker told you not to lowball them because they would get insulted. This is the guy that will get paid on a percentage of the sale price. I have bought and sold boats, houses and cars and never worried about "insulting" the sellers. Remember, it's a business decision and if the sellers are foolish enough to let you walk, move on to another boat. There are literally thousands out there for sale and you will find one just as good or better than the one you are looking at and probably at a better price. If it were me, I would insult the hell out of them with my offer based on that broker's comment.
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Old 07-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primerate84 View Post
If it were me, I would insult the hell out of them with my offer based on that broker's comment.
Anytime you're dealing with the seller's broker, you have to remember that they're in it to get the most possible money for their client. And the most possible money for their commission. This broker is not working for you. Same as with real estate....use your own agent, not the seller's agent. If you're acting as your own agent, you've got your work cut out for you so you have to decide if it's worth the 5-10% commission fee you're saving.

The research advise is good, for your offer. When I bought my boat, I swear I think I looked at every C25 that was on the market at the time! I came up with a maximum market value of a perfect boat, average values depending on area, and low ball deals out there. When I focused on my boat, I inspected it very thoroughly (survey) so I had a laundry list of what all needed to be fixed. Not much, but enough to justify a lower price than asking.

In my written offer, I presented a summary of my findings. I compared this boat and asking price with other boats. I listed the repairs necessary to bring it to a condition comparable with other boats, and I listed repairs necessary to bring it to "perfect" condition, a sort of ceiling where no matter what you do, the boat will never be worth more than this. I made my offer of 58% of asking price, with documented reasoning of it.

I own the boat.

The seller told me he really wanted to get more for it, but was very impressed with the written offer and detailed information.....and all the research I had done. I told him I just wanted to present a reasonable, honest offer for what the boat is actually worth.
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