Setting an offer price - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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here is a site where you can look at what boats sold for. might help give you an idea. no affiliation blah blah blah...

Sold Boats History Report - BoatQuest.com

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post #22 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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Risk of a low ball offer

Hey,

A lot of good information and points of view have been posted. My only comment concerns the risk of a low ball offer.

If you offer something that is really low, and not based on anything other than 'throw something out there', the seller may conclude that you are not a serious buyer and then won't bother negotiating with you. There are lots of 'tire kickers' out there who are never going to buy a boat but will waste lots of time with looking, poking, prodding, and asking endless questions, when they are never willing to pay for anything.

If you get placed in that camp, the owner is not going to bother with you. That's what the broker it for - to weed out the people who are not serious.

Barry

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Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #23 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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A couple of things. Where's the boat? Is it at the brokerage dock or at a local marina, or is it 50 miles away? If it's hard for you or the broker to get to it, the seller isn't interested in selling at anything below asking. If you're worried about hurting the seller's feelings, you want the boat too badly. That's not good either. Your initial offer is exactly that... an offer. Offer what you think the boat is worth. You've done your research and know what other similar boats are being sold for. If there's a significant variation high or low, ask the broker specifically why his seller's boat is different. Initial offer is made and accepted, sea trial first. You don't like how the boat sails, you can walk. You like the boat, then survey. Survey finds issues, you renegotiate. There are no guarantees that you'll come to any agreement and one again, you might have to walk. You'll be out the price of the survey and haul, but it will save you $$$ in the long run. If the survey finds issues, get estimates for repairs. Subtract that from your offer, and go from there. Tell the broker that your initial offer was your purchase budget. If the owner can't get his/her head around the idea that his/her boat has issues, that's their problem, not yours. Sure, they'll feel sore about it all. They were already half way to the bank with their plans for the check. In the end, when and if you close, the owner will feel like you got a deal. You'll feel a bit like they got a deal. Both parties feeling a little like they got the shaft means that the closing price was the right one.
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post #24 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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The broker gave me a very informative printout, think it was from Soldboats, shows the asking price and actual selling price for the last 10 sales of my model. Using this I was able to determine that they sold on average for 8% below asking, and what the average selling point was. So I made my first offer below this by a reasonable, but not insulting, margin.

Some boats are just unrealistically priced. The best thing to do is go and find another one that is realistically priced, as it's hard to deal with a buyer who has an inflated view of the value of his wares.
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post #25 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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A week ago I closed on an Allied Princess so I guess I have a feel for the present situation. Like in this thread, there is some slightly conflicting advice, but then buying a boat is an individual situation so really eveyone's advice is valid for some situation!
Maybe like the OP I have a slight personality quirk where I care what people think, and the possibility of someone getting insulted by a low offer concerned me, but after reading a lot on here, doing a ton of research and searching high and low for the boat we wanted, I went ahead and, sight unseen, made an offer 50% of asking. Before driving 9 hours to look at a boat, I really wanted to know how much it was going to cost. The broker's comment that he was "90% sure the seller wouldn't accept such a low price" told me that he wouldn't get offended anyway. The broker sent me a listing of the last six princess's sold (over a 1.5 yr. period) and I countered with a listing of all the princess's currently for sale and their asking price (a quite broad range). While I knew that some of them would require a lot more work (which I really tried to calculate what that would be, but was figuring at least 50% higher than whatever I calculated!) the boat we offered on seemed to have no real problems. After a 4 day offer/counter-offer that reminded me of the slave buying scene from "Gladiator" we agreed on a price (which was still 25% lower than asking) and I travelled the nine hours to see the boat, have it surveyed and acceptance agreement. The seller I don't think ever got insulted, was actually much more helpful in commissioning the boat for the voyage home than the dealer of a new boat would have been.
Don't be afraid to make a low offer, but if you want the boat, be realistic about what it's worth and what you are willing to pay. You'll win some and lose others, but hopefully win the one you want!
One thing I learned though, was on an offer, and acceptance, make it contingent on three things, 1)personal inspection, 2)survey, and 3) sea trials. That way you have an out though you will also be out the cost of the travel to the boat. I made certain up front too that I arrived before the surveyor so if I rejected it I would not be out all the money (he pro-rated the job) and if he found something significant on the in-water survey, he'd inform me before I hauled the boat out, so I could avoid that cost ($300 in my case) if I was going to reject the boat. All in all it worked well for us. I think not only the buyer, but the seller and broker were happy with it. Or at least I know I am!
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post #26 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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I am in the process of looking to purchase a boat also (38 to 42"). It is my first keel boat purchase but I am not an inexperienced negotiator.

1. There are many ways to say no, some no's are more offensive than others. Likewise there are many ways to low ball a purchase. Remove all personal emotion from any conversation to the seller broker or owner. Treat it as a business deal that you are out here to make money from other's boat.

2. Find out the background of the boat
a. The previous purchase price, number of years ownership, money spent on upgrade and repairs. Use these figure to find out his annual cost of owning the boat. The number should not include the slip fee and month to month overhead cost.
b. Reason for his sell, how urgent for him to unload his boat
c. how much monthly upkeep for him to keep the boat for 6 months or a year
d. Does he have montage on the boat?

3. Low ball him is OK, but show that you are ready to deal. Put up large cash escrow as a good will gesture to deal. Make him aware that this is a clean deal, you have no baggage. However, the deal is dependent on a clean survey and sea trial.
4. Previous sold prices are good to know, but it is just a reference. Use it to your advantage, but do not use it if not, since every boat is different, so are the buyer and seller.

Good luck to you and to "me" also. Remember it is just a toy no matter how we sweet talk our SO. No one dies of missing a deal on a boat. Hold on the your money, walk if you have to. There are more boats to come. The ocean will be still there when you are ready.



Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
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post #27 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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Like my daddy used to say, "Son, you haven't made a bad deal until you pull out your wallet!"
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post #28 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinayreefer View Post

Like my daddy used to say, "Son, you haven't made a bad deal until you pull out your wallet!"
Hey, father knows best. My father used to say: Use other people's money to make money.

But........ when my daughter was a teenage a few years ago. This is the conversation between my daughter and.

Daughter: Daddy (inpatient voice), you don't know anything.
Me: Yada yada...(tried explain I do know something)
Daughter: DADDY...... You don't understand!!!
Me: Yada yada gain ..(tried explain I do understand)
Daughter: You just don't care......... DADDY!!
Me: Yes, I know.

I hope someday she will be a "Daddy Girl" again. . In a recent month she said to me. I don't want you to pay for my medical school. But I want you to buy me a new car when I graduate from Med school and must attend my graduation. I said: it's deal. Does it mean I can retire soon. hahaha.


Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
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post #29 of 34 Old 07-08-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickMick View Post
here is a site where you can look at what boats sold for. might help give you an idea. no affiliation blah blah blah...

Sold Boats History Report - BoatQuest.com
I wonder what populates their database. I signed up and tried to find two boats I know sold in the last two years. Neither were there. Feels like I was scammed out of my email address.


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post #30 of 34 Old 07-09-2011
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A buyer's broker is seldom used because few buyers seem to want one. But the opportunity exists for the asking. I can't imagine a broker who is not willing to accept half of something vs all of nothing.

A friend bought a 36' Beneteau less than a month ago and used a buyer's broker - and saved over 20% of asking on a 13 year old boat that looks like it left the showroom less than a year ago. The boat was not priced above market value to start with.

I was in commission sales for 29 years and can't recall ever being insulted by a low offer - either it is accepted or negotiations begin.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
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