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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 07-25-2011
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The thing you have to remember, an HR is a production boat also, as is a swan etal! Hell, Even my spouses Mercedes is a production car, with more issues than my GM's!

With this in mind, yes the MB has a few more safety items, ala air bags, yes the NB is better than my gm's, then again, if I compared a MB 1 ton dually if I could get one to my GM, I would suspect not as much would be different vs a 1 ton dually and a car based rig, both MB or GM.

As far as a better design.....not sure that the designers for Jeanneau and Beneteau any how are that bad. Yes the manufacture may have some differences in how they want things to be or look etc.... otherwise, the folks that designed the Jeanneau, design better built boats too. Look at Oyster, same fellow designs some of those rigs, that designs Elans, another lower price point manufacture.

Will you get what you pay for? maybe, I look at homes I have worked in, difference tween the 5 mil, 1 mil and 300-500K starter homes near me, yes that is right, in Seattle a 300-500K home is low priced and a starter! NOTHING from how it is framed, same out of whack corners walls etc. Just the 5 mil home has marble, gold plated this and that, the starters linoleum and plated chrome! take your pick!

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  #12  
Old 07-25-2011
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OK, I’ll bite…

I presume you’re assuming these boats will be lying ahull, if being “left to take care of themselves”?

I’ll just address the Jeanneau 409, since it’s one of the only specific models identified… Unfortunately, I see a lot I don’t like about the prospect of such a boat left to lie ahull in the open ocean for a prolonged period of 50-60 knots…


Like so many other modern designs, that’s an awful lot of freeboard relative to very little underbody… Not what you want in a boat left to take care of itself in a blow…

Lying beam-to in breaking seas, last thing I’d want is all those hull portlights, and that large expanse of deckhouse window… And, that rudder looks awfully vulnerable to some of the loads it might see if left to lie ahull…

No doubt the boat would likely “survive” such an experiment, but I’ll take my chances aboard a much more moderate, traditional design, thank you very much… (grin)
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Old 07-26-2011
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I agree that a spade rudder lying ahull is a crapshoot. Pitch the nose down, lift the stern, expose the rudder, confused sea comes from abeam or you spin to one side, catch rudder, no more rudder.

However, I believe a drogue would greatly, if not completely, reduce this possibility, so I have no reason to think the experiment is necessary.
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Old 07-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I agree that a spade rudder lying ahull is a crapshoot. Pitch the nose down, lift the stern, expose the rudder, confused sea comes from abeam or you spin to one side, catch rudder, no more rudder.

However, I believe a drogue would greatly, if not completely, reduce this possibility, so I have no reason to think the experiment is necessary.
Under the said condition, losing a rudder is an acceptable risk for me. The boat sinks and/or occupant dies is NOT. Please note - I purposely use the term "occupant" instead of a sailor to emphasize the worst scenario. Hopefully if I were in this situation, I will use all tricks in the books to be in the head of the game to ride out the storm.

If I don't, I will get the latest Darwin award and my offspring should not permit to have children. Our country does not need anymore dumb citizens around.
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Old 07-26-2011
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Hey,

Why don't you contact Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, etc. and ask them this question? I am being completely serious. Specifically ask about the rudder, ports, hatches, etc.

Barry
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  #16  
Old 07-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hey,

Why don't you contact Catalina, Hunter, Beneteau, etc. and ask them this question? I am being completely serious. Specifically ask about the rudder, ports, hatches, etc.

Barry
My experience tells me that they would not give you a direct answer. It is safer for manufactures not to answer any direct questions to the consumer. Either they will:

1. Point you to their dealer for your questions
2. Cite a direct quote from their published literature in which it has been approved wordings by the legal department
3. not able to answer you question due to many existing variables.

Until there is a way for users, owners dealers to report defects, safety issues and design problem for sail boat to a agency with whom will compile these data, we can only learn from internet forums.
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  #17  
Old 07-26-2011
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Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Will the late or new model Production boats survive by themselves in the middle of the ocean subjected to 50 to 60 knots wind for 24 hours.

1. Let say take any new production boats from 38 to 42 ft mono-haul, sails are secured and tied down per proper seamanship
2. All ports and hatched are secured and locked per manufacture.
3. One occupant is sitting down by the gallery secured by a five point seat belt with a DOT Helmet.
4. The following boats will be used
a. Hunter
b. Catalina
c. Beneteau
d. Jeanneau 409
e. Bavaria
f. Dufour 40

5. The following boats will be used for control.
a. Caliber 40 LRC
b. HR 40

Questions:
1. Which boat will perish
2. Among the ones still floating, which one will fair better
3. Which one still have a live occupant at the end of the test.
4. Which one the occupant will fair better?

State your assumptions, make your prediction. Helpful discussions are sought but the light-heart entertainment is encouraged.

Don't want anyone sh*t in their pants if this does not jive with them
All boats will survive without a problem. The occupant will be sick as a dog, but otherwise be fine as well. Boats are much tougher than sailors or competing marketers would like you to think.
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