Congrats West Marine on Rocna recall! - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree17Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 08-06-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,989
Thanks: 10
Thanked 138 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
I know a guy whose company has scissors made in China. He says you have to watch everything, as they will try to rip you off at every turn. Someone senior at your plant will also quit and open a factory right across e street and start making your product in your package. There is little you can do.

Even after all of that, he says it still makes economic sense. A pair of scissors he says cost over a dollar to produce in the US, cost less than 10 cents to produce there. He can afford a lot of waste and fraud before he loses.

Sad state of affairs.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 08-06-2011
dhays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: University Place, WA
Posts: 626
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 5
dhays is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I know a guy whose company has scissors made in China. He says you have to watch everything, as they will try to rip you off at every turn. Someone senior at your plant will also quit and open a factory right across e street and start making your product in your package. There is little you can do.
I have one suggestion... avoid retailers that push their suppliers for ever-reduced costs. The biggest offender (both in size and severity) is Walmart. If you really want to see jobs stay in the US, if you want to see your neighborhood stores stay in business, if you would like to see an economic recovery, just don't shop at Walmart... ever... for any reason...

Unfortunately, those whose jobs are the most vulnerable are the same demographic that shops the most at Walmart.
thedudeistoocool likes this.
__________________
47*20'11.7" N
122*35'20.8" W
S/V Legacy, Catalina 400 MkII, Hull #328
My Blog on
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 08-06-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,989
Thanks: 10
Thanked 138 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
I have one suggestion... avoid retailers that push their suppliers for ever-reduced costs. The biggest offender (both in size and severity) is Walmart. If you really want to see jobs stay in the US, if you want to see your neighborhood stores stay in business, if you would like to see an economic recovery, just don't shop at Walmart... ever... for any reason...

Unfortunately, those whose jobs are the most vulnerable are the same demographic that shops the most at Walmart.
That's only an option for the middle and upper classes. Further, if you pay more, but buy fewer products, that won't necessarily work either.

For example, today you buy a pair of shoes made in china and a hot dog from my stand on your way home. Tomorrow, you get patriotic and buy a more expensive pair of shoes made in the USA, but have to skip my hot dog stand because you're out of money. I like the patriotism, but it isn't necessarily doing more than trading a shoe maker job for a hot dog stand job.
ChicagoNewport27 likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 08-06-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
theoceanaire is on a distinguished road
From the website of ROCNA:
The exact materials used are part of the proprietary intellectual property involved in our production specifications. Rest assured, however, that the grades of steel are carefully chosen to ensure all Rocna anchors exceed the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) requirements by a considerable margin.

Now, if you cut through the crap, what they are saying is that there is something other than steel being used, you can't find out what that is because it is "intellectual property", a not so clever dodge. It does say that the steel choosen is of a good grade, but it doesn't clear up what it is that they add to in their "intellectual property" recipe.
Great double speak. They should go after military contracts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 08-06-2011
chrisncate's Avatar
Don't sail anymore
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,776
Thanks: 18
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 5
chrisncate is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
So, I’m presuming you’ve never actually used a Rocna, correct? I doubt you’d be referring to it as a “plow”, if you’ve ever retrieved one from the bottom…

No question, your Bruce is a very good choice, and you’re wise to go oversized with it… But an original Rocna, or a Manson Supreme, would have been even better, in my opinion…

The original Belgian Bruce was my choice for many years, and still remains on my bow as my secondary, and another sits on my stern, as well… But in my experience, these new generation of anchors really do represent a significant step forward in anchor design, and are noticeably superior as an all-around single anchor choice than anything else I’ve ever used…

Again, that’s just based on my own experience, but it’s an opinion shared by others with considerable experience… I believe our own resident expert Maine Sail would approximately agree… And, for a couple of decades and through a few circumnavigations, one of the most outspoken devotees of the Bruce was Steve Dashew…

Until he tried a NZ-made Rocna, that is… they made the switch, and have never looked back…
Why would you presume I have never set a Rocna? Because it's so good and had I ever set one, I'd never say what I said in my prior post?

Regarding the Rocna, in my opinion it's overrated in most categories (price, design, and materials used...). I stand by my opinion that the new generation of anchors, while great anchors to be sure, aren't that much better (if at all) than the older not so popular anchors (like the Bruce for example), and that they do generate a placebo effect among some of you out there.

Here is what I don't like about the Rocna specifically:

1- The weld. I don't trust welded anchors. Sue me.
2- The quality. I have seen so many variations in the welds on them (some much thicker and blobier than others), and I have also noted many slightly crooked shanks from bad quality control during production. Go in Bacons right now, and look at the store stock of Rocnas. One has such a crooked shank it's unreal.
3- The hype. Yes, the Rocna sets good. But so does my Bruce, my Fortress, my cqr, and my fisherman when used where the bottom calls for them. What else are all the folks who ponied up for a Rocna gonna say? Of course you think it's wonderful, you spent an arm and a leg on one (those who bought one I mean).
4- The company. Specifically the guy who always pops up in anchor threads bs ing everyone about his product.
5- The price.

And lastly, the recall of course. It just reinforces what I already thought about Rocna, that being that they are over hyped and not built that well. Quality products don't get recalled, nor does a quality product require the manufacturer to argue how great the product is on internet forums.

Why I like the Bruce as my primary:

1- No weld, it's a solid hunk of high quality steel. I have never seen one fail, though I'm sure someone can post an example of one failing.
2- Re sets quickly if it pops out (I'm told, never had it happen yet to test the theory).
3- It likes short scope.
4- No hype, and a real one oversized can be had for a cup-o-la hundred bucks or less.
5- It's looks good. This doesn't matter to anyone but me, but it matters to me.

Last edited by chrisncate; 08-06-2011 at 04:48 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 08-06-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,989
Thanks: 10
Thanked 138 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoceanaire View Post
From the website of ROCNA:
The exact materials used are part of the proprietary intellectual property involved in our production specifications. Rest assured, however, that the grades of steel are carefully chosen to ensure all Rocna anchors exceed the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) requirements by a considerable margin.

Now, if you cut through the crap, what they are saying is that there is something other than steel being used, you can't find out what that is because it is "intellectual property", a not so clever dodge. It does say that the steel choosen is of a good grade, but it doesn't clear up what it is that they add to in their "intellectual property" recipe.
Great double speak. They should go after military contracts.
Steel, by definition, is iron alloy. There is no such thing as pure steel, it all has something added to the iron. Carbon is most common, then just about anything is possible with any steel.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 08-06-2011
SVAuspicious's Avatar
Mermaid Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,339
Thanks: 0
Thanked 104 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 8
SVAuspicious will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
I stand by my opinion that the new generation of anchors, while great anchors to be sure, aren't that much better (if at all) than the older not so popular anchors (like the Bruce for example), and that they do generate a placebo effect among some of you out there.
I don't understand how anyone who has actually used properly sized anchors of various pedigrees could come to that conclusion. I accept it is your opinion but I just don't get it.

Can you get a good set with a CQR? Of course. Can you get a better one with a Bruce or a Delta? Definitely. Are the new generation anchors (Spade, Rocna, Raya, et al) substantially better yet? Darn tooting.

So if your opinion is based on real experience allowing apples-to-apples comparison I don't understand at all how it can be so very different from mine.
chef2sail and wingNwing like this.
__________________
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 08-06-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 18
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 9
ccriders is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
just don't shop at Walmart... ever... for any reason...
Absolutely, this is gospel. We cannot afford this kind of retailing. It is destroying our manufacturing base and our economy.

Add to that: "Do without before buying Chinese". I mean Magellan didn't have any electronic gadgets. Heck he hardly had any charts. So how much junk do really need?
John
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 08-06-2011
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,776
Thanks: 57
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
Absolutely, this is gospel. We cannot afford this kind of retailing. It is destroying our manufacturing base and our economy.

Add to that: "Do without before buying Chinese". I mean Magellan didn't have any electronic gadgets. Heck he hardly had any charts. So how much junk do really need?
John
My wife and I are real bargain hunters - it is a very satisfying game - and we virtually never go in a Wal-Mart. When they came to town we checked them out carefully because of all the hoopla about them. We found that we can get the same or better prices on everything elsewhere.

A lot of their stuff is REAL crap - shoes especially. The one spot you can get a real bargain there is the end of the aisle racks - that's where they put their loss leaders. I saw an interview with an ex-Wal-Mart executive who let this slip. We checked it out numerous times and it seems to be true but elsewhere in the store the prices are nothing special. I guess in smaller towns they can be the only game in town but if you have a choice, you can do better.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 08-06-2011
LarryandSusanMacDonald's Avatar
SaltwaterSuzi/CapnLarry
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Permanent Vacation
Posts: 600
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
LarryandSusanMacDonald will become famous soon enough
Just learned about "Chinese Drywall" - google it. During the housing boom in Florida 6 or 8 years ago they couldn't get drywall fast enough. Lots of it was imported from China - it puts out fumes which are not only unhealthy, it eats copper - so these multi-hundred thousand dollar homes are on the market for 50 or 60 thousand because no one wants to tear out all of the drywall, all of the wiring, and any copper plumbing. The lawsuits are going after the importer! And I'm sure the Chinese manufacturer is laughing all the way to the bank.
__________________
Saltwater Suzi and Cap'n Larry


"A sailboat is a fickle mistress. Youíve got to buy her things. Youíve got to understand everything about her. What you donít know sheíll use against you." -Captain Larry


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any opinions on the West Marine HP-310 Gene T Gear & Maintenance 3 12-31-2011 06:27 AM
Anyone with an old West Marine Catalog? skikodiak General Discussion (sailing related) 4 10-09-2009 09:18 PM
Shopping at West Marine? JohnnyBoy Gear & Maintenance 0 11-29-2007 08:50 PM
Fwd: Only at West Marine Woburn! NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 1 02-01-2007 10:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:19 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.