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-   -   Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats... (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/77277-rough-weather-seperates-real-boats-bad-boats.html)

sailguy40 08-07-2011 11:08 AM

Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...
 
Any boat can float and sail (or motor) along in calm or light conditions. Even a plywood box with a sail will move along along. Its when the weather spikes up out of nowhere and that 5-10knt winds just turned to 45+ gale force kicking up large breaking white caps. This is the time where boats and their skippers are put to the test and the real boats are seperated from the not so real boats. Its seems like some boats are just not truely storm capable which if and when you get hit, you could be in grave danger especially considering many videos I seen on youtube. Some of those videos are just scary as heck! This from what I understand is the main thing which makes a boat blue water capable or not.

Boasun 08-07-2011 11:19 AM

Its not the good from the bad but, The seaworthy boats from the lake boats. :D

kd3pc 08-07-2011 11:22 AM

boats are boats, some built better, some designed better. All are compromises. None will survive the all out fury of mother nature at one time or another. Doesn't mean they are bad boats. Some of the best built/designed boats have failed in spectacular ways, with very little weather to contend with, so some of it is arrogance of the men who sail the. (re: racing boats that crack in half, masts snapping, etc)

A lot of it, when you look at those who sail the world, is luck.

dhays 08-07-2011 11:35 AM

Maybe you didn't think this through...
 
Quote:

Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...
It is pretty silly to think that only "real boats" can handle 45 knot winds and large breaking waves. A sailboat, much like any other vehicle, is designed for a particular purpose.

Is a Porsche 911 a "bad" vehicle because it can't handle icy mountain roads? Is a Range Rover a "bad" vehicle because it turns in lousy track times?

It is the same with sailboats. What the "best" boat is depends on where and how it is used. A great blue water cruiser would be a "bad" boat for inland racing. Your comment is like calling a screw driver a "bad" tool because it can't drive nails.

rockDAWG 08-07-2011 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailguy40 (Post 759416)
Rough weather seperates real boats from bad boats...

I am not sure what do you mean:
What do you think are real boat or bad boat? If I assume correctly in the context of Sailnet culture, the good ones are Valiant, Caliber, HR, Swan, and CH etc. The bad ones are Hunter, Catalina and the bigger offender, Beneteau :)

I used to think that, but after intense studying the facts, I think all sailboat can survive regardless the make. The boats vanished in the seas is not because they were poorly made. Most because of human factor and "TOO MUCH SAIL" for the condition they wee in. Of course unable to reef in a timely matter can cause trouble. Yes, a well made boat may offer better mechanism to reef, etc. But you can do the modification on a Beneteau too.

There is no bad dog, only the bad dog owner.

I think our long time contributor Sailing Dog said once: The boat will survive better than those the Deck Monkeys on her deck.

Of course, WestSail has a better sea comfort than a flat bottom Beneteau. It really depends on ones's need. There is not an easy answer.

:)

rockDAWG 08-07-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc (Post 759424)
None will survive the all out fury of mother nature at one time or another.

In the eyes of the ocean, all boats are tiny, including Titanic.

davidpm 08-07-2011 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailguy40 (Post 759416)
This from what I understand is the main thing which makes a boat blue water capable or not.

Your getting beat up bit but I think that is because of the "bad boats" term.

If what you meant to say. "Is this the difference between a coastal sailing boat and a blue water boat" I doubt if most folks would take issue.
  • A fuller hull with longer keel will be slower but track better and not pound as much.
  • Heavier chain plates and standing rigging are more likely to endure long term pounding.
  • Lots of stringers or egg create stiffeners to create a ridged hull will prevent the hull from flexing itself to death during weeks of rough conditions.
  • A rudder hung in such a way as to have protection will likely survive better than a simple fin.

Your basic premise is correct. Blue water boats are built differently. They are almost always more expensive, heavier and slower with more room for tanks and stowage and less room for people.
Just don't call all the other boats from Sunfishes to Bennes, Cats and Hunters bad boats or not real boats and you will get more constructive comments.

mdbee 08-07-2011 01:33 PM

Good and bad
 
I think the OP was a bit myopic.

Conversely you could say bluewater boats suck sailing in shallow bays.

Different uses, different designs.


Quote:

Originally Posted by davidpm (Post 759452)
Your getting beat up bit but I think that is because of the "bad boats" term.

If what you meant to say. "Is this the difference between a coastal sailing boat and a blue water boat" I doubt if most folks would take issue.
  • A fuller hull with longer keel will be slower but track better and not pound as much.
  • Heavier chain plates and standing rigging are more likely to endure long term pounding.
  • Lots of stringers or egg create stiffeners to create a ridged hull will prevent the hull from flexing itself to death during weeks of rough conditions.
  • A rudder hung in such a way as to have protection will likely survive better than a simple fin.

Your basic premise is correct. Blue water boats are built differently. They are almost always more expensive, heavier and slower with more room for tanks and stowage and less room for people.
Just don't call all the other boats from Sunfishes to Bennes, Cats and Hunters bad boats or not real boats and you will get more constructive comments.


jerryrlitton 08-07-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc (Post 759424)

A lot of it, when you look at those who sail the world, is luck.

I agree with sailguy but was Boasun said is very true.
As far as luck goes I have found that most of the time it is better to be lucky then good.

Jerry

aeventyr60 08-07-2011 05:46 PM

NO. How about the experience of the guy at the helm? Seen a lot of small "bad boats" cross big Oceans. Preparation and planning beat luck any day. If I was back in the desert then luck would come into it. 45 knots is nothing either....in the hands of a capable skipper.


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