Rambler 100 lost keel capsized - all rescued - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-16-2011
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-16-2011
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Good vid here with interview of Erle W. right off the rescue boat:

Video: Rambler 100 and Monohull Record


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post #13 of 36 Old 08-16-2011
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Peter Isler - who we below when she turtled - and had to "go for the gold" through the hatch...

http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/4...cast110816.mp3


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post #14 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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One thing that is interesting in this story is the use of pfds. Kirby says that if it hadn't been for pfds, it would have been a disaster. Then I remembered hearing, I think in Pete's interview, that the SOP for the racers is to disable the auto-inflate...for obvious reasons.

The reason this is interesting to me is Pete's story about swimming out of the turtled boat. On the one hand, he had to swim downward quite a bit to clear the lifelines, etc. - but then he said he wasn't sure he could make it back to the surface on his own, and was lucky a mate grabbed him and pulled him up. A manual inflate pfd is the answer to both of these problems.

When buying my kit, I really debated on whether or not to get the auto or manual inflate version. I'm glad I got that manual.

Anyone here ever come up from a turtled cabin? That sounds scary as hell.

(PS - More info in this article: Scuttlebutt News: Peter Isler - Surviving to tell the story of Rambler 100 Sounds like Pete DID have the pfd inflated after he swam out., but it wasn't enough floatation to pull him in his foulies to the surface quickly enough.)


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post #15 of 36 Old 08-17-2011 Thread Starter
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Smack wrote>
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I really debated on whether or not to get the auto or manual inflate version. I'm glad I got that manual.
Even if you are sail an extreme machine (with a canting keel), I would guess that there is a greater probability that someone will end up unconsious in the water, than stuck under a turtled hull. I choose the auto inflate.

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sailing a P28-1 Heart of Gold on Narragansett Bay

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post #16 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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I guess it's a pick your poison kind of thing...

a. Drown while unconscious (because you didn't tether in and/or no one else is on the boat to help you)
b. Drown while conscious (because you had to deflate your pfd to get out from under the boat)*

*And deal with accidental inflates if you're on a wet boat.


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post #17 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

*And deal with accidental inflates if you're on a wet boat.
The top end (read: expensive) inflatable PFDs use hydrostatic pressure sensing, rather that moisture or liquid sensing to inflate. So, in theory, they won't accidentally inflate in a rainstorm or in a breaking wave. They will, however, inflate if submerged.
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post #18 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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The top end (read: expensive) inflatable PFDs use hydrostatic pressure sensing, rather that moisture or liquid sensing to inflate. So, in theory, they won't accidentally inflate in a rainstorm or in a breaking wave. They will, however, inflate if submerged.
Do you have a model MIT? How much are we talking?

Based on this incident, I'm now also looking at a PLB for my kit. I looked into the SPOT thing, but the account doesn't make sense cost-wise. I'll probably end up getting the FastFind unless I can find something better.


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post #19 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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They are not cheap but I've used a combination harness, hydrostatic pressure sensing inflatable for years now. I have been impressed how well it works both in terms of being totally soaked racing J-22's or my boat and not inflating, and with how quickly it inflated when I ended up in the drink. I think I paid something less than $200 for mine but these days they are somewhere around $300.00

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post #20 of 36 Old 08-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
So, the big question is this: Are bulbed blades just plain bad design?
It certainly appears so. This factor was just discussed in another thread but to recap, prior to the early / mid 80's I had never heard of a keel falling off. Then came Drum, Simon LeBon's boat which had the lead slide off the bolts in the channel. The foundry apparently had not put anything like backers on the bottom of the bolts or bent them into a J, as was conventional. This situation was regarded then as a freak accident but it has become almost commonplace in the last decade or so.

These razor blade keels with a huge pendulum of ballast at the bottom and a tiny mounting surface against the hull are the problem IMHO - how can they possibly be engineered to take that kind of stress on such a tiny load area?

Combine the super thin, lightweight exotic material hulls with the incredible point loading of those extreme keels and you have a perfect recipe for keel failure, which is what we are seeing.

This sort of knife edge (pun intended) engineering is fine for race cars - you can pull over and walk back to the pits - but is unacceptable for offshore sailboats - people drown too easily.

IMHO, anyone who wants to take the risk of sailing one of these manifestly unseaworthy monsters offshore should have to forgo the response of the rescue services and look after themselves, no EPIRBS, no radios or SatCom etc. How many times has the Aussie Navy had to rescue Vendee Globe and other racers when boats like this failed thousands of miles from land. Taking risks is fine even admirable but if you don't take reasonable and proper precautions (a seaworthy boat for example) then you shouldn't expect others to risk their lives to pick up after you.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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