Rambler 100 lost keel capsized - all rescued - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 36 Old 08-18-2011
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Sloop,
If memory serves Autissier's first boat, and also the Englishman's whose name I forget who was plucked from the ocean south of Oz were both conventional keels as was the AC boat (one of the Australians) that played fold-a-boat. I don't know the Bavaria story so cannot comment.

My point was that I don't believe the concept is unsound and for mine boats like Leopard, Alfa Romeo and Wild Oats seem to have shown that a strong reliable canting keel is possible.

My guess, and it only is a guess, is that more folk have died in cruising boat incidents in the last ten years than in racing, particularly in racing incidents caused by gear failure. Certainly in Australia I know of only one fatal incident involving a racing boat in recent times and that was when Scandia went up on a rocky outscrop south of Sydney. That had nothing to do with gear failure as such.

Anywho, as I said I'd simply ban the bloody things on the basis of environmental vandalism and be done with it.
It seems that you, Puddinlegs and Bent all think I'm too conservative - has anybody passed this news to Rantar?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #32 of 36 Old 08-19-2011
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The conservative vs liberal or what ever, ALL of us have both in us......BUT< it will depend upon WHAT the topic is! Hence why telling RANTar that some are calling one conservative in boat uses/types etc, when in the political spectrum, we might be liberal! So reality is, one is BOTH!

Not that any of this made sense.........

So pudding, are ye on the E33 or the far 39 for FWB in about 45 days or so?

Marty

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I drives me dinghy!
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post #33 of 36 Old 08-21-2011 Thread Starter
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SloopJonB wrote>
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These razor blade keels with a huge pendulum of ballast at the bottom and a tiny mounting surface against the hull are the problem IMHO - how can they possibly be engineered to take that kind of stress on such a tiny load area?

Combine the super thin, lightweight exotic material hulls with the incredible point loading of those extreme keels and you have a perfect recipe for keel failure, which is what we are seeing.

This sort of knife edge (pun intended) engineering is fine for race cars - you can pull over and walk back to the pits - but is unacceptable for offshore sailboats - people drown too easily.
Fatigue prediction - the prediction of failure due to cumulative structural damage from repetitive loading (well below the ultimate failure load) for "well characterized" materials remains somewhat of an art. The high degree of uncertainty in the load history, and thus the cumulative damage is a very difficult challenge to overcome. Throw in corrosion from the harsh salt water environment, and the difficulty steps up even further. If Rambler 100 had been 'retired' after her record-breaking transatlantic run, her breakthrough performance would have been considered an unqualified success. If she had been taken out of service for a major inspection and refitting, would the potential danger have been detected, repaired and the keel loss avoided? Instead I think she will be remembered for her dramatic, and near tragic ending.
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post #34 of 36 Old 08-22-2011
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Just like suspension failure in an F1 car. Sometimes they just go, 'doink'. Obviously, that would not be acceptible in your daily driver. Same with sailing. In the world of 'faster, faster, faster', that has to be expected. However, because there is a lot of trickle-down technology to the rest of us, the question needs to be asked.
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post #35 of 36 Old 08-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Just like suspension failure in an F1 car. Sometimes they just go, 'doink'. Obviously, that would not be acceptible in your daily driver. Same with sailing. In the world of 'faster, faster, faster', that has to be expected. However, because there is a lot of trickle-down technology to the rest of us, the question needs to be asked.
I bet you just nailed the last section of the coming incident report:

Quote:
CRITICAL INQUIRY FINDINGS:

Keel went "doink".


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post #36 of 36 Old 08-22-2011 Thread Starter
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Barquito wrote>
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Just like suspension failure in an F1 car. Sometimes they just go, 'doink'.
Yes, sometimes they just go "doink", but it is not like an F1 suspension.

You can instrument the suspension of a car and drive a variety of F1 courses to characterize the loading envelope, from which engineers can design a minimal weight suspension to drive a given number of miles with a high degree of reliabilty. This is possible becasue the range of loading is well defined and understood.

If you were to design an ocean racer to reliably withstand the full range of conditions that are likely to be encountered, the boat will be heavier and more stable than the extreme machines that are breaking records today, and would be left behind by risk takers who are willing to gamble on a smaller margin of safety.

It would be more like designing an F1 Car, then driving it in the Dakar Rally.

How long would it last?

But if by some miracle it did survive, would you then take it and run the Baha 1000?

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ChuckA
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