Somebody got caught on the outside - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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Originally Posted by Plumbean View Post
Chafe gear? Looks to me like the load on the anchor roller was sufficient to rip it (and the stem head) out of the deck. I never ride off of my bow roller, but instead take the anchor rode through the bow chock to one of my bow cleats. If you are in the habit of just riding off the bow roller, make sure it is built to handle the loads. I suspect a lot are not, and I know mine isn't.
I guess I have to start using even more smilies to make sure my point is made.

In the referenced comment about chafe gear, please retroactively add

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #122 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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Point Loma

A couple times a year foolish skippers get caught inside the breakers at the surf break known as Ralph's. It lies just south of the Point Loma peninsula. Most days it is not a problem but occasional South swells can push you onto the rocks in a matter of minutes. Beware entering San Diego harbor. The other side has a jetty that is submerged at high tide which also claims a few keels a year.
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post #123 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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It's a thin boat construction thing.

My Alberg would never fall apart like that in those conditions.
Yup, lots of ordinary Classic Plastic boats would have maintained their integrity at the stem and hull to deck joint in that situation... As I've mentioned in a previous post, it all started with Hunter's incredibly poor design and execution of the anchor roller, in this instance...

What is really sobering about the close-up photo of the ripped-out portion of the foredeck, is that there appears to be no additional thickness or layup whatsoever at this most critical area of the hull... In fact, from the appearance of the way in which the stem fitting was torn from the hull, it looks like there might not have even been a substantial backing plate placed inside the hull...

Yup, the early (mis)characterization of this boat as a "houseboat" wasn't that far off the mark...

Not hard to imagine how such a lightly constructed bow section would handle an impact with something solid at the water line, that thing could crack open like an eggshell...
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post #124 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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I think it's very uncool to use this sad accident to bust on Hunters and other production boats. Every boat has tradeoffs, and different people will have different preferences for performance, cost, interior amenities, durability of fittings, etc. Whatever you may think about them, Hunter has managed to stay in business through thick and thin, so they must be delivering products that meet the desires of a significant body of customers. Maybe a Hunter is not the boat that you want, but you may choose to do a different type of sailing from the typical production boat customer.

Because of the tradeoffs, every boat owner must sail his boat within its and his limitations. Since these people were liveaboards without a huge amount of wealth, it's understandable that they would choose tradeoffs that favor interior comforts and cost over other factors. But their error was not in their selection of boat - it was in not sailing her within her reasonable limitations.

Sailnet is not a user group for any particular brand. It's a place where everyone is supposed to feel welcome to learn and share knowledge (and occasionally make a purchase from the owners and/or advertisers). Yet hearing the venom and cheap jokes directed toward Hunters, MacGregors, and other production boats can make some people feel very unwelcome. So I'm not sure this is the best place to do that. Maybe you should go to your own boat's user group (or form one, if one does not exist) if you want to bust on other brands.

This is especially important in this case, because the fact that this boat was a Hunter seems to me to have had absolutely nothing to do with the accident. And that suggestion obscures the fact that this accident had everything to do with the owner's faulty judgement in going out in conditions that clearly exceeded that capabilities of the boat (and the vast majority of other boats as well) as well as the skipper. Another contributing factor appears to have been poor maintenance, since it appears that the auxiliary power was not operational.


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post #125 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I think it's very uncool to use this sad accident to bust on Hunters and other production boats. Every boat has tradeoffs, and different people will have different preferences for performance, cost, interior amenities, durability of fittings, etc. Whatever you may think about them, Hunter has managed to stay in business through thick and thin, so they must be delivering products that meet the desires of a significant body of customers. Maybe a Hunter is not the boat that you want, but you may choose to do a different type of sailing from the typical production boat customer.

Because of the tradeoffs, every boat owner must sail his boat within its and his limitations. Since these people were liveaboards without a huge amount of wealth, it's understandable that they would choose tradeoffs that favor interior comforts and cost over other factors. But their error was not in their selection of boat - it was in not sailing her within her reasonable limitations.

Sailnet is not a user group for any particular brand. It's a place where everyone is supposed to feel welcome to learn and share knowledge (and occasionally make a purchase from the owners and/or advertisers). Yet hearing the venom and cheap jokes directed toward Hunters, MacGregors, and other production boats can make some people feel very unwelcome. So I'm not sure this is the best place to do that. Maybe you should go to your own boat's user group (or form one, if one does not exist) if you want to bust on other brands.

This is especially important in this case, because the fact that this boat was a Hunter seems to me to have had absolutely nothing to do with the accident. And that suggestion obscures the fact that this accident had everything to do with the owner's faulty judgement in going out in conditions that clearly exceeded that capabilities of the boat (and the vast majority of other boats as well) as well as the skipper. Another contributing factor appears to have been poor maintenance, since it appears that the auxiliary power was not operational.
Absolutely right. The Benehuntalina snobs attitude transferred to cars would require everyone to drive Porsches and Benzes, if not Bentleys. Most people can afford and drive Chevies, Fords etc. Some need motorhomes or minivans and others need pickups. Taking a motorhome on the track with a Porsche would be just as absurd as taking a Hunter out in extreme heavy weather.

I've done considerable cruising in protected water on a friends Hunter 38 - up to 45 knots of winter weather - and it did just fine and was as comfortable as home (almost ). It isn't what I would choose for myself but it does an admirable job of what it was designed for - local cruising in full comfort (read: keeping the girls interested). I am always impressed by all the well thought out details as well. I even find the "roll bar" a plus when on board (though ugly as he!! from afar).

The essential underlying attitude of the snobs is that ANY largish sailboat should be capable of crossing oceans, which is absurd, the requirements are completely different, strength being only one of many. I don't want to sleep in a scrunchy pilot berth in a protected cove in the summer for example.

People need to keep some perspective when analyzing boats, their design and build quality.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #126 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
This is especially important in this case, because the fact that this boat was a Hunter seems to me to have had absolutely nothing to do with the accident. And that suggestion obscures the fact that this accident had everything to do with the owner's faulty judgement in going out in conditions that clearly exceeded that capabilities of the boat (and the vast majority of other boats as well) as well as the skipper. Another contributing factor appears to have been poor maintenance, since it appears that the auxiliary power was not operational.
+1.

I don't care what anyone says...NO boat could have stood up to the same circumstances without significant damage.


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post #127 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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I agree with the previous two posts.

While I would never buy one , nor do I beleive that bashing a brand is particularly useful in any way, it is important to understand that this is also an opppertunty to correct a flaw in this particular design also.

In an airplane crash there is usually not just one cause, but a series of them compounding the circumstances. There is no doubt majority of blame is assigned to the captain here. Do not lose sight of the fact that there is also a design flaw which should be corrected in the bow area. Failure to address that will lead to other similar instances.
Enough said.

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Sailnet is not a user group for any particular brand. It's a place where everyone is supposed to feel welcome to learn and share knowledge (and occasionally make a purchase from the owners and/or advertisers). Yet hearing the venom and cheap jokes directed toward Hunters, MacGregors, and other production boats can make some people feel very unwelcome. So I'm not sure this is the best place to do that. Maybe you should go to your own boat's user group (or form one, if one does not exist) if you want to bust on other brands.
I agree. There is nothing gained by this. While I am not personally a subscriber to any of these production boats, they allow many to enjoy the water which after all is what we all share in common. Some have gtreat experience....some are gaining it. Some live on their boats...some just use them recreationally...and some travel all over gods creation in them. Our boats are personal...we love them, and it is disrespectfull to poke foilly at anothers choice. If it serves to turn someone away from sailnet....its a bad choice.

Dave


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post #128 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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The anchor ripping through the hull is a bit disturbing. Is that a Hunter thing, or are all fiberglass boats the same with this?

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Brad
I suspect it is a chain saw thing.....

I doubt that any glass boat can be impervious to a chain saw....

and by not having a bridle... the chain just ate through the bow....

No?
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post #129 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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This a 15 second video of my evening sail last week on a Hunter 33.

After arriving at the dock and leaving a few short moments later, I motored out of the Marina with my 29 hp Yanmar at 7 knots. Using my lazy arse autopilot, I walked the deck and collected my fenders. Next I unrolled my mainsail, (that's was 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back). And then I did the same with the jib. More like 20 seconds for that, but who's counting? As music played on my cockpit speakers, I accelerated gently to 7.5 knots. I continued my sail until I decided to go back to the dock, at which point I wasted another 50 seconds of life bringing in my sails.

It was as far from being a painful experience as I could ever imagine.

Each design of a boat/car/plane/building has it's own purpose or function. In my case, a Hunter fulfills my needs perfectly and makes me very happy.

I hope everyone on the internet is okay with that.

Sorry, for the shaky video, I took it on my iPhone, which while not being as "tuneable" as a Blackberry, or as pure as a 35mm Panavision, is certainly convenient and user friendly.

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post #130 of 392 Old 09-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninefingers View Post
This a 15 second video of my evening sail last week on a Hunter 33.

After arriving at the dock and leaving a few short moments later, I motored out of the Marina with my 29 hp Yanmar at 7 knots. Using my lazy arse autopilot, I walked the deck and collected my fenders. Next I unrolled my mainsail, (that's was 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back). And then I did the same with the jib. More like 20 seconds for that, but who's counting? As music played on my cockpit speakers, I accelerated gently to 7.5 knots. I continued my sail until I decided to go back to the dock, at which point I wasted another 50 seconds of life bringing in my sails.

It was as far from being a painful experience as I could ever imagine.

Each design of a boat/car/plane/building has it's own purpose or function. In my case, a Hunter fulfills my needs perfectly and makes me very happy.

I hope everyone on the internet is okay with that.

Sorry, for the shaky video, I took it on my iPhone, which while not being as "tuneable" as a Blackberry, or as pure as a 35mm Panavision, is certainly convenient and user friendly.

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Nicely done nine. 7 knots on a nice day - how can you beat that?


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